Goodies v Baddies

[eBranding.com.au]

Here we go again:

beegees.com.au
neildiamond.com.au
pinkfloyd.com.au
foofighters.com.au
bobdylan.com.au
gunsnroses.com.au

 

[robert]

This email was sent out to everyone on Netfleet's daily subscription list - December 8th, 2014.

Okay - newbies should read the rules before they go and buy crazy names like neildiamond.com.au and mirandakerr.com.au ... and us regular domainers know how crazy and wrong it is to buy these "cybersquater" names, but when a newbie signs up to a Trusted Name Trading Platform site like Netfleet, and then receives a personal email in their inbox that reads:

"Snap top premium domains at Netfleet - Australia's No. 1 Domain Name Trading Platform.
Thousands of Australian domains are selling in less than 24 hours. Don't miss out on enhancing your domain portfolio, and beat your competition by securing high value domains in your industry today."

And then Netfleet are promoting "Today's TOP DOMAINS SELLING RIGHT NOW" with

AliciaKeys.com.au
MichaelBuble.com.au

as the TOP TWO PICKS OF THE DAY!!!!

With NO explanation of trademark infringement or prohibited misspelling rulings by auDA...

There is not one single tiny link on this promotional email that was sent out on the 8th December, to everyone on the Netfleet mail list, to advise new domain buying customers that they are NOT ALLOWED TO OWN THESE NAMES...

Yet Netfleet are blatantly promoting them...

And then taking $49 for each, plus the bid...

And auDA will jump all over the people who buy these names...

And then Netfleet will sell them over and over again...

Yet auDA let Netfleet get away with doing this, but domainers can't?

And from my calculation from the email they sent the day after - they made $485 in one day from the blatant copyright-infringement names - not including the legitimate names that were sold.

I'm sorry. I can't sit here and keep quiet so I don't rock the Australian-Domain-Name-Industry boat. Something's not right here.

Some people are making a lot of money out of this while the rest of us have to tip-toe around trying not to make a commotion.

I really like the Netfleet site and have spent hundreds (maybe thousands now?) of dollars with them. In the beginning I wasted a lot of money on my steep learning curve. Now that I understand the rules, I actually agree with most of them. I wish the rules were promoted a lot clearer, then I wouldn't have given Netfleet so much free money.

I have many powerful domain names that I am entitled to own and currently developing for myself and various clients that I have purchased from them. I think the site looks great and works great too and they provide a great service...

However, making money from names they know people are not allowed to own, is morally incorrect and how they are allowed to do this is beyond me.

If a domainer buys foofighters.com.au - the industry shouts "you're ruining the industry for all of us!!"

If Netfleet promote the same name as one of their TOP PICKS OF THE DAY - with no mention of the rules - we all just sit back and see which sucker buys it and wastes their money.

Crazy.

 

[Data Glasses]

Why hasn't Auda stepped in?

 

[findtim]

we all just sit back and see which sucker buys it and wastes their money.

well actually we don't sit back, there are MOUNTAINS of posts on dnt stating members opposing exactly what you are saying, when i began a few years ago it was "utube.com.au" ( go search the thread)

unfortunately not all people who buy domains are members of dnt or even know of dnt, thats why dnt has events, meetups and looks to invite people to become a member FOR FREE.

i can feel your anger in your post, the purchaser today of some names i feel should know better, i do not think we need to cry poor for that person given the business they are in.

the system however does need reform and that is what auda membership, auda committees are all about, and i feel having dnt as a central voice IMO of dislike for these registrations has played a major part of making change happen.

its not perfect and if you read the posts on the topics you will find that members of dnt have been committed to making changes over the years, been on the board, been on the committees and have made changes, they have come a long way and the momentum is forward not backward.

tim

 

[eBranding.com.au]

This email was sent out to everyone on Netfleet's daily subscription list - December 8th, 2014.

Okay - newbies should read the rules before they go and buy crazy names like neildiamond.com.au and mirandakerr.com.au ... and us regular domainers know how crazy and wrong it is to buy these "cybersquater" names, but when a newbie signs up to a Trusted Name Trading Platform site like Netfleet [...]

I agree with you, I don't think large numbers of blatant names like that should be auto-mailed out on mass.

I really like the Netfleet site and have spent hundreds (maybe thousands now?) of dollars with them. In the beginning I wasted a lot of money on my steep learning curve. Now that I understand the rules, I actually agree with most of them. I wish the rules were promoted a lot clearer, then I wouldn't have given Netfleet so much free money.

I did give you a hard time for some of your early regs, and to your absolute credit - you're one of very few that actually listened, learnt and changed your behaviour. I respect that.

 

[robert]

FindTim - You can't feel my anger because I'm not angry. I'm too busy to be angry. You can hopefully find my distaste of not putting up with double-standards. A certain standard for domainers... and an alternative, more-relaxed standard for companies selling pending delete domain names that they shouldn't be.

As I said, I really like the concept of Netfleet and how easy it is to use. I just don't think it's fair that they can get away with selling domain names that we are not allowed to own, or sell ourselves. If there are going to be rules, everyone should have to follow them.

It's like the local police station sending out cadets to hide amongst the trees, surveying a wallet planted on the pavement with $1000 cash inside, then busting the first person to pick it up.

"What do you think you're doing! That's not yours! You're not allowed to have that!"

They shouldn't be allowed to plant the wallet in the first place.

It's trickery.

Demonoid - Thanks mate.

 

[Ashman]

When there is more competition in the drop catching space the questionable trading practices of Netfleet won't be such an issue anymore.

I really hope Domain Shield takes it up to Netfleet and brings back honest and open trading.

 

[findtim]

here's the bottom line ! IMO , its not trickery, its lack of knowledge.

in the last few years i have purchased 3 laptops, 2 dvd players, 2 kids bikes, a few spare computer screens, a few mobile phones .............and the list goes on.

have i EVER read the manual that came with it ? NO, so people just don't read unless they are truly interested in learning.

and another thing: do you when changing you gas bottle on your BBQ spray the connection with soapy water to test for a gas leak before lighting your BBQ ? NO, so even after people read they still do not DO IT.

we can write all we like about "how to and how not to" but newbies and oldbies will still do what they like.

all domains are on public offer and even domainshield will not be able to prevent someone placing a bid on pinkfloyd dot com au , its not their responsibility and there are just to many to profitably police.

i'm not sure how netfleet work out what names get sent out as promos eg: if its manual or done on a stats system but i can not see them replying to that question based on recent requests for explainations, it seems they would prefer to only answer general questions individually via there own private system...... [ hows that canceling and order thing going ]

in the end it should be up to auda to take them off the market so they do not REPEAT themselves, thats the problem, utube was a good example.

but even then its just a mindfield of problems and costs to auda, i have said since day one of my joining dnt that the biggest problem is that asic doesn't connect with trademarks which doesn't connect with auda.

now i'm going to cop some flak for that statement as their are many exceptions " dove soap" "dove chocolate" = dove.com.au and we all should know that.

these are the many things newbies need to learn.

most times just go with your gut, if it feels wrong then it is wrong IMO

@1500 domains a day drop , the drop catchers auction houses only make money on sales, the cost of vetting them of bad domains is to costly, + who's call is it ? netfleet decide this ones ok and drop say no ? can auda do it? probably not as well, they struggle to keep their no register list up to date with all the misspells.

whats the answer? educate yourself so you are all good, and get involved in auda as the changes that are potential coming will be small fry to foofighters dot C A !

tim

 

[petermeadit]

Just wondering who would buy a name like PinkFloyd .com .au?
To my understanding this will have automatically appeared on all three drop catchers lists, Drop, Domain Shield, Netfleet and the DNTrade list too.

So would you buy the name, and why? Seems to be some cases where people are entitled to these kinds of names yeah?
Not my bag, but maybe a fan site or something?

I mean is someone entitled to the name? Maybe the band Pink Floyd wanted to bid on it themselves before it droped?

I am just wondering how any of the three drop catchers would go about filtering this stuff out, I mean how can you tell who is and who isn’t entitled to these names dropping?

 

[robert]

Both very good points Peter and Tim...

 

[DomainShield]

When there is more competition in the drop catching space the questionable trading practices of Netfleet won't be such an issue anymore.

I really hope Domain Shield takes it up to Netfleet and brings back honest and open trading.

As much as I would love to join in bashing Netfleet I happen to disagree with Robert.

To me it seems likely that Netfleet has some clients who are not domainers and who could be eligible to own a domain relating to a popular personalities. Netfleet is now part of the largest registrar group in Australia including MelbourneIT. What are the odds that within this group they do not already have the lawyers who represent the popular personalities listed in this post?

Further to this neither of the examples given are on the misspelling list. Only one of the examples has a Trademark, and since trademarks refer to specific classes a domain (without a website) cannot breach a trademark until a website has been added which is used in a similar class or looks similar enough to be passing off as the trademark owner.

 

[DomainShield]

Just wondering who would buy a name like PinkFloyd .com .au?
To my understanding this will have automatically appeared on all three drop catchers lists, Drop, Domain Shield, Netfleet and the DNTrade list too.

Yes it would appear on all our lists.

So would you buy the name, and why? Seems to be some cases where people are entitled to these kinds of names yeah?
Not my bag, but maybe a fan site or something?

I must state that I do not endorse any domainer buying a domain like this. Fan sites are generally allowed but for a domainer this is not a good idea and is very high risk.

I mean is someone entitled to the name? Maybe the band Pink Floyd wanted to bid on it themselves before it droped?

Yes there are eligible entities in Australia, but domainers beware you cannot just flip these domains for millions as (like all com.au and net.au domains) you have to have another reason for registering the domain and for a trademark or popular personality this is very hard to prove.

I am just wondering how any of the three drop catchers would go about filtering this stuff out, I mean how can you tell who is and who isn’t entitled to these names dropping?

That is the problem facing all drop catchers (and normal retail registrars) how do you detect and filter this stuff?
This is why it is a complaints driven process and auDA goes through each and every case manually to check the merits of the complaint.

I am happy to hear some ideas on how to detect and filter lists to help dntrade clients steer clear of issues so lets start a new thread with some ideas on big gotchas and ways to detect them automatically.

 

[Data Glasses]

Hoepfully the Mods will be grown up enough to accept the context of this link, so here we have a noob (his own words) who apparently has an organisation for drones and uav's ?? Ummm ..... I vote Baddy https://www.namepros.com/threads/di...one-domain-names.801475/page-109#post-4751217
~
Worth noting any member on that forum I have noticed is an Aussie I have always pointed them to this forum

 

[petermeadit]

DomainShield, thanks for clarifying some points here for the folks around buying names for the purpose of flipping them.

Of course auDA has made known, and happy for this point to be made obvious again, here on the forum.

Seems a lot of newbies are missing this point, and it would be a shame if folks got into trouble through any bad advice they may have been told by anyone encouraging buying for purposes of selling. Particularly some of these obvious names.

Agree it will be very difficult to filter these names out of any automated drop lists.

However, making these points known here on the forum should go a ways to helping some folks to make better choices, at the very least.

 

[Cooper Mills DomainLawyer]

It is good to hear the different views, but only Anthony (Domain Shield) has actually addressed a critical issue here. Our law firm often registers domain names for brand owners from the Drops, so without trade marked domains appearing on the list we wouldn't be able to recover or register them for brand owners. I know that there are also other law firms who participate in the drops for the same purpose.

auDA's complaints based system is a good system - people don't realise that auDA has a very small staff count, that is why a complaints based system is the only effective system in the absence of a very large staff count.

 

[neddy]

It is good to hear the different views, but only Anthony (Domain Shield) has actually addressed a critical issue here. Our law firm often registers domain names for brand owners from the Drops, so without trade marked domains appearing on the list we wouldn't be able to recover or register them for brand owners. I know that there are also other law firms who participate in the drops for the same purpose.

That's a fair point Erhan. Anthony is absolutely correct in this.

I'm glad Anthony also reiterated the following:

I must state that I do not endorse any domainer buying a domain like this. Fan sites are generally allowed but for a domainer this is not a good idea and is very high risk.

Yes there are eligible entities in Australia, but domainers beware you cannot just flip these domains for millions as (like all com.au and net.au domains) you have to have another reason for registering the domain and for a trademark or popular personality this is very hard to prove.

But Robert's post also had some excellent points that need addressing. He writes very intelligently, and speaks as a "newbie" who wants to be in this industry for a long time. Given his actions to date; and his obvious preparedness to learn from his initial mistakes, I believe he will be one of the "new domain brokers" that will succeed. I certainly hope he does.

(I'm going to write another post about the plethora of new domain brokers, so stay tuned. )

One of the many salient points Robert raised was this:

regular domainers know how crazy and wrong it is to buy these "cybersquater" names, but when a newbie signs up to a Trusted Name Trading Platform site like Netfleet, and then receives a personal email in their inbox that reads:

"Snap top premium domains at Netfleet - Australia's No. 1 Domain Name Trading Platform.
Thousands of Australian domains are selling in less than 24 hours. Don't miss out on enhancing your domain portfolio,
and beat your competition by securing high value domains in your industry today."

And this one too:

I really like the Netfleet site and have spent hundreds (maybe thousands now?) of dollars with them. In the beginning I wasted a lot of money on my steep learning curve. Now that I understand the rules, I actually agree with most of them. I wish the rules were promoted a lot clearer, then I wouldn't have given Netfleet so much free money.

I'm not having a smack at Netfleet in particular, but I do urge them to change their wording on their promotional emails. They definitely need some disclaimers imho.

And they should:

1. Highlight prominently what "PD" means.
   
   
2. Bring back the "MS" (misspelling) symbol they used to have (and explain it).

Ongoing education is the key.

Imho as always.

 

[findtim]

i agree ned, PD and MS are very important, especially if people our their selling how to invest in domain names type seminars.

that is no slag on the seminars but in QLD there is a law it was told to me by my foxtel employer that when selling anything ( an idea, a concept, a product ) that you are not only responsible for what you tell the client but also for what you DO NOT tell the client.

eg: ( i never did this ) we had people sign up for a 12 month contract and didn't know it, they were told "your first month is free " and " we need your credit card info to verify you are over 18 " which basically meant we are going to debit this card for 12 months and you can do nothing about it !!

likewise if in a seminar they say " buy any domain you want " then that would be bad information.

AND we have to remember a seminar can put 20/40/100 ? people instantly into the market place

i'm not having a go at anyone here, as there are probably many people doing this and they don't even know about dnt, it is a potentially bad thing for the industry.

tim

 

[Data Glasses]

(I'm going to write another post about the plethora of new domain brokers, so stay tuned. )

So Rod And Ned's School of domain brokerage is off the table?

 

[neddy]

So Rod And Ned's School of domain brokerage is off the table?

OMG - can you imagine it! What about Honan and Snoopy too?

 

[Data Glasses]

OMG - can you imagine it! What about Honan and Snoopy too?

Now that is something i would love to see !!!