Extending .nz domain space

[johno69]

But i can just hear the conversations on the phone for YEARSSS after it changes to .au "yes, my website is blabladentist.au, no there's no .com just.au, yes they changed it, yes alot of people don't know about it, no that website on the .com.au isn't our dentist, no thats the other dentists address you have to go to the .au, no i don't know why they changed it, yes i think its silly as well, well thanks for calling and i'm sorry you are currently parked at the other dentist because you went to the wrong website, yes it would be embarassing and confusing to find a car park then drag the kids out of the car only to discover you were in the wrong place, thats ok i'll change your time and see you in 15 minutes, why didn't we own both domain names? well he owned his first and he didn't know they were changing it and we got this one before he did, ohh yes we've managed to steal loads of business from him as he did alot of advertising but now we rank higher"

tim

That comes down to the website owner being a tool then. If the .com.au is taken, and it's a concern of yours leaking traffic to it, don't buy the .au.

Find a new domain that's available in both .com.au & .au to cover yourself.

It's really not that hard is it?

 

[findtim]

It's really not that hard is it?

doesn't mean its not going to happen, and even if you look at it as a small % its still going to be a litigation nightmare

tim

 

[johno69]

It's no different to net.au V com.au to me.

Same same.

 

[David Goldstein]

Hi all,

I couldn’t access this until now as I was in Russia and despite trying from several places, dntrade doesn’t like Russian IP addresses!

But while it seems the majority of people in this discussion find the idea of registrations at the second level appealing, where was the support for it during the recent names policy panel? I was more or less a lone voice calling for this change, and there was hardly any submissions in support during the consultation.

A couple of points:

Findtim - you can keep the existing 2LD structure of com.au, .net.au etc. Just because you allow registrations at the second level doesn’t mean you have to do away with the existing structure.
And you can easily implement a sunrise process to take into account existing registrants. Of course there will be some winners and losers. Whether you give com.au registrants preference, or auction off contested domains to the eligible parties or another method can be decided later
Rhythm – why is it confusing? A number of ccTLDs have made the change, and they have no problems. So it has been considered.

And while people compare stats at various ccTLDs, which is better than at the Names Policy Panel where panellists often compared .com to .au, one of the best examples is .at where there is co.at, or.at and at. .AT registrations account for 96.5% of all registrations, while co.at accounts for 2.83%. It’s blatantly obvious that where registration rules are the same, registrants don’t want third level domains!

And why not introduce registrations at the second level for anyone, benefiting domainers since registrants can come from anywhere, grandfather all existing .au registrations, and tighten up eligibility for any new registrations in existing 2LDs so that, for example, com.au is only for use by small business?

I’m always amazed about how inward looking all of the Australian domain name business is, but most particularly the lawyers.

Cheers
David

 

[findtim]

did i get this meaning correct?

"And why not introduce registrations at the second level for anyone, benefiting domainers since registrants can come from anywhere, grandfather all existing .au registrations, and tighten up eligibility for any new registrations in existing 2LDs so that, for example, com.au is only for use by small business?"


you obviously know your stuff but this statement is ! silly ! "ohhh lets keep small business small"

or did i miss understand?

tim

 

[neddy]

I couldn’t access this until now as I was in Russia and despite trying from several places, dntrade doesn’t like Russian IP addresses!

My apologies David - the previous admins of DNT banned some IP addresses from Russia et al because of spammers. We have continued that policy (and added to it).

Thanks for your contibutions to this discussion - you really are a font of knowledge on the subject. It certainly has got me thinking - particularly along the lines of impact
and consequences on my many .com.au domains.
.

 

[David Goldstein]

Tim,

I'm giving some options of what could happen. One of the problems with the Names Policy Panel is questions are asked in isolation, but changes such as allowing registrations at the second level would not be just one policy change. There are a number of issues to consider.

So by allowing registrants from abroad would increase competition. More people would want .AU names. And there are several ccTLDs that have different policies for registrations at the second and third levels. There are good reasons they can be different or the same. But small business complains it's difficult to get the domains they want. True in a limited way. So a way of selling it to small business would be this. Remember, domainers aren't the only users of domain names.

I'm not even sure why domainers would find registrations at the third level interesting since all the evidence shows registrants overwhelming prefer second level registrations. So let others use the third level if they want it.

Cheers
David

 

[DavidL]

I agree, if 2nd level regos in .au were opened up, you could relax the rules so that:

Bloggers
Microbusinesses (ie before they have an ABN)
Individuals
Students
Loose associations
etc

based in Australia wouldn't have to go and register .com's or .biz.

More than anything, I hate how this segment of Australians have been ignored in .au. However there seemed to be little interest at the last Names Policy panel - 'they can use id.au' seemed to be the general feeling. Even when I highlighted how of the top 100 Australian bloggers only 3 use id.au and the vast majority use gTLDs.

The other benefit of allowing a 'free-for-all' directly under .au is it means you could tighten other areas without disadvantaging some of the smaller genuine special interest groups. Eg insist on an official number or identifier for asn.au and org.au registrations to neatly and cleanly prevent illegitimate regos in that area.

 

[snoopy]

However there seemed to be little interest at the last Names Policy panel - 'they can use id.au' seemed to be the general feeling.

Clearly the panel has spent too much time spent wandering the campus in brown cord pants.

 

[David Goldstein]

HI David,

I agree with you, but on the id.au, it took until the last or second last meeting for the majority of the Names Policy Panel to even come up with the compromise of allowing those interests you mention to use id.au. That the majority of the panel couldn't even grasp how there was a small but significant segment of uses Australians would want to use .AU for was embarrassing!

Cheers
David

 

[Rhythm]

Rhythm – why is it confusing? A number of ccTLDs have made the change, and they have no problems

I know... I never said it was confusing. You got the wrong guy...

 

[findtim]

SO what is the prediction? 1 years time 2, 3, 4 ????

is it just inevitable? or still up for massive debate? and maybe never happen?

will it take as long as mabo to get through? and 20 years on nothing has changed? i can't see that

tim

 

[David Goldstein]

Tim,

Given the way the policy changes work in .au, unless there is a consensus for change, it won't happen. And lawyers are generally against it, because they are some of the most inward looking people who compare everything that happens in a ccTLD to .com. I get the feeling most lawyers working in the domain name area don't even know the difference between a ccTLD and .COM, let alone other gTLDs.

God help them when there are around 500 new gTLDs they have to think about (given that probably 2/3s of new gTLDs will come from brand owners).

So when could it happen? With consensus at the next Names Policy Panel, within 5 years. In reality, we'll probably all be dead before anything changes going by the last panel meeting.

Cheers
David

 

[David Goldstein]

OK Rhythm... you didn't say it would be confusing, it was Snoopy...

 

[findtim]

Tim,

Given the way the policy changes work in .au, unless there is a consensus for change, it won't happen. And lawyers are generally against it, because they are some of the most inward looking people who compare everything that happens in a ccTLD to .com. I get the feeling most lawyers working in the domain name area don't even know the difference between a ccTLD and .COM, let alone other gTLDs.

God help them when there are around 500 new gTLDs they have to think about (given that probably 2/3s of new gTLDs will come from brand owners).

So when could it happen? With consensus at the next Names Policy Panel, within 5 years. In reality, we'll probably all be dead before anything changes going by the last panel meeting.

Cheers
David

Just the answer i was hoping for LOL, i was just today talking to an accountant ( client, not my accountant ) who said to me ( as they all do ) "advertising is a waste of money" , i replied " so why are the most successful busineses in the world still advertising? nike, coke, kelloggs, mcdonalds, harvey norman, etccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc"

he just shut up after that !

------------

this whole thread has been of major interest to me as i "represent many businesses" in their online world, they look to me confidently to guide them and inform them, last year i instructed my client base to buy certain domains to protect their interests and they all did, i didn't gazump them i stopped others from doing that to them, in return i may gain income from improvements to there online marketing strategies... or not...but i can sleep well at night.

SO, i'm the kinda person that needs to keep pushing to get the answers for my clients so if need be we are prepared for a new sunrise period.

thanks for your input, i hope russia was fruitful for you

tim

 

[snoopy]

SO what is the prediction? 1 years time 2, 3, 4 ????

is it just inevitable? or still up for massive debate? and maybe never happen?

will it take as long as mabo to get through? and 20 years on nothing has changed? i can't see that

tim

It takes AUDA years and years to make even minor changes so I'd peg this as 10 years+ to never. It will need panel after panel and crates of Bollinger to work this out.

I think to get them moving they'd need to be reacting to some kind of threat/potential revenue decline, like perhaps NZ is reacting to .kiwi. Personally think it should just be left as is though as stated previously.

 

[David Goldstein]

Tim - Russia was good. 5 days of cruising on the river Volga courtesy of RU-CENTER!

Snoopy - InternetNZ is supporting the .KIWI proposal and I doubt, from my conversations, this policy review has anything to do with it. It's actually quite interesting to see that registries, despite having something to lose, from what I see, are supporting regional gTLD applications. A case in point - the proposal for .MOSCOW and its Cyrllic equivalent is supported by RU-CENTER.

I think in NZ they have just realised it's rather pointless not to allow registrations at the second level. And now enough people have come to this realisation.

 

[snoopy]

Snoopy - InternetNZ is supporting the .KIWI proposal and I doubt, from my conversations, this policy review has anything to do with it. It's actually quite interesting to see that registries, despite having something to lose, from what I see, are supporting regional gTLD applications. A case in point - the proposal for .MOSCOW and its Cyrllic equivalent is supported by RU-CENTER.

Thanks for the info David.

 

[findtim]

The closet i got to russia was a finnish girl named Mina, aahhhhhh memories of london, bloody almost married her and moved to finland ! a real "sliding doors" moment.

tim