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.AU Direct Registration Forums, Syd, Mel, Bris

Discussion in 'Domain News' started by snoopy, Feb 8, 2018.

  1. DomainNames

    DomainNames Membership: Community

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    The old board is gone. It is easy to overturn the mistakes of the past. That's what a new Boards job is to do correct mistakes made not just keep going. This is why Nicole and Ned received the highest ever auDA member vote.

    FYI The DoCA and other Government departments are not in favour of the process so far nor the B.S. about the ways surveys where stacked and who did it... watch this space!

    If auDA keep going on regardless I have no doubts various Government Departments will be stepping in big time sooner rather than later.

    Does auDA really want a visit at their offices and homes for files, computers and phones or to have to produce information under legal discovery? Now that will be interesting....
     
  2. DomainNames

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    worth noting who will probably go the legal avenue soon.,,. once they hear the crazy and absurd ill informed PRP suggestions for implementation even when it is not FACT there was never the majority demand for it in the first place .. just yes only rigged surveys and poorly written surveys.

    "CARSALES[​IMG]
    2015 Names Panel Policy
    [​IMG]
    Submission on Draft Recommendations

    carsales.com Limited (carsales) is pleased to have the opportunity to provide comment on the August 2015 Draft Recommendations of the Australian Domain Name Administrator (auDA) in regards to the management of the .au top level domain (.au TLD).

    carsales is the largest online automotive, motorcycle and marine classifieds business in Australia and is listed on the Australian Stock Exchange with a market capitalisation in excess of $2.2 billion. The carsales network of websites includes carsales.com.au , Australia's number one automotive classified website, motoring.com.au , bikesales.com.au, boatsales.com.au , RedBook.com.au as well as leading caravan, truck and machinery classified websites. Together with its subsidiaries carsales employs more than 600 people in Australia and develops world leading technology and advertising solutions that drive its business around the world. The carsales network has operations across the Asia Pacific region and has interests in leading automotive classified businesses in Brazil, South Korea, Malaysia, Indonesia, Mexico and Thailand.

    EXECUTIVE SUMMARY

    carsales’ view is that registrations under .au TLDs should not be made available because they do not
    provide the benefits that the Panel rely on to justify their introduction and they present complications for existing and future registrants. The existing 2LDs (.com.au, .net.au, etc.) that are available for use adequately service the needs of Australian domain registrants.

    In the event that .au TLDs are introduced, the .au TLD should be reserved for the existing 2LD owner for 5 years at no cost.

    carsales’ views are based on the following points, each of which will be addressed in turn.

    1. DO NOT INTRODUCE .au TLDs
    1.1. Does not provide benefits presented by the Panel
    1.2. Open to cybersquatting and bad faith registrations
    1.3. Increased cost of maintaining domain portfolio
    1.4. Impact on trade mark assets of business
    1.5. Opens up to user confusion

    2. IF .au TLDs ARE INTRODUCED, THEY BE INTRODUCED WITH CERTAIN CONDITIONS
    2.1. Protocols for protecting against cybersquatting
    2.2. .au domains reserved for 5 years at no cost for existing 2LD holders and preferential allocation to .com.au registrants
    2.3. Offer domain registrations that last for 1 year and 5 years

    carsales.com Ltd ABN 91 074 444 018 Level 4, 449 Punt Rd, Locked Bag 9001, Richmond Vic 3121 Tel: (03) 9093 8600 Fax: (03) 9093 8693
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
  3. DomainNames

    DomainNames Membership: Community

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    CARSALES Continued
    "1. DO NOT INTRODUCE .au TLDs


    1.1 Does not provide benefits presented by the Panel

    The .au domain may very well become largely a duplicate of the .com.au domain.

    The current domain based national identity is synonymous with the existing domain structure of restricted 2LDs i.e. com.au. Unlike other top level domains (for example, Spain with .es which opens up the option for words that end with “es”) the .au domain space adds limited value beyond dropping “.com” from existing names. That is, dropping the “.com” component of the existing 2LD does not provide the option for many domains that integrate .au, for example www.nouve.au.

    The Panel states that .au domains will be “shorter, more appealing and more memorable”. Losing the “.com” part of the domain will make a domain shorter and perhaps more appealing. However given that users are often reliant on search engines to find the website they seek, a shorter or more appealing name will have a limited improvement for user experience. carsales questions whether it will be more memorable given that by their very introduction .au domains will cause a user to query whether the website they intend to visit is .com.au or .au, with no logical way to discern between the two alternatives.

    The Panel cites overseas experience that registrants prefer direct .nz or .uk domains. carsales is cautious about drawing inferences from statistics. The statistics do not appear to disclose how many direct registrations are simply duplicates of the 2LD registrations, and where they are duplicates, which domain is ultimately favoured by the registrant and which is used as a redirection. Carsales asks the Panel to carefully consider the inefficiency that results when a system is introduced that simply duplicates an existing, well functioning system.

    carsales anticipates that a vast amount of the .au domain registrations will be defensive and will simply re-direct the visitor to the existing .com.au domain. This adds no value to the domain owner or the domain visitor. Nor does it open options to domain seekers, who will be restricted in their choice because it is by no means a certainty that they will be able to register a domain in the .au space that is unavailable in the 2LD space.

    The necessary defensive registrations will effectively remove a significant bulk from the pool of available domains. carsales queries why the Panel recommend introducing .au TLD in circumstances where there is evidence of defensive registration practices in New Zealand and the United Kingdom and if it were to wait some time the Panel would be in a position to draw fulsome conclusions from overseas experience.


    The Panel states that the introduction of .au domains will enable an individual to “obtain an Australian domain name in a simple and straightforward way”. In carsales’ opinion, this is not a compelling reason for introducing a new domain protocol for Australian registered domains. From carsales’ perspective the process for obtaining a domain name is not linked to the question of whether a .au TLD should be introduced. carsales does not oppose the proposed method for individuals to obtain an Australian domain (i.e. warranty, backed up with evidence if challenged) but rather it considers that the Panel has conflated to two very separate questions.

    1.2 Open to cybersquatting and bad faith registrations

    The registration process must retain robust processes and protocols to protect legitimate businesses from cybersquatting and bad faith registrations. carsales supports the policy rules set out as they apply to 2LDs but notes that those processes and protocol are not always effective and the introduction of the .au TLD provides a new avenue for misuse of a domain in terms of passing off, cybersquatting and unlawful activity.

    1.3 Increased cost of maintaining domain portfolio

    The Panel’s recommendation to open the .au TLD will add additional costs to existing domain name registrants who will be compelled to take out defensive registrations for all existing domains. Should existing registrants elect not to take out defensive registrations they risk being vulnerable to cybersquatting and confusing the public. This proposal will add no benefit to existing web centric businesses and instead will increase the cost of managing and protecting those businesses’ domain portfolio.

    This applies equally to new entrants to online business who will be very concerned to ensure that their business is not susceptible to cybersquatting etc and as a consequence will be required to take out an additional defensive registration with the associated costs and administration.

    1.4 Impact on trade mark assets of business

    Carsales holds multiple trade marks that incorporate .com.au, for example ‘carsales.com.au’ and
    ‘homesales.com.au’. One consequence of introducing .au TLD domains is that online businesses will be required to assess their trade mark portfolios in light of that change and arrange for any necessary new registrations.

    Established businesses will also need to consider taking out the .au domains for all trade marks in their portfolio in order to prevent the risk of infringement by a third party as a domain.


    This process has the real prospect of being costly and diverting resources from the productive activities of businesses.

    1.5 Opens up to user confusion

    The Panel states that introducing the .au TLD will “make the domain name system simpler and easier to use”. The Panel proves no clear explanation for this statement and carsales disagrees with this view. Introducing .au domains has the real potential to confuse internet users about whether “.com.au” or whether “.au” is the genuine domain for the business they are seeking. Providing an alternative domain does not simplify the system, which is simple as it currently exists. It is difficult to see how creating two domains where there used to be one will produce a system that is easier to use.

    2. IF .au TLDs ARE INTRODUCED, THEY BE INTRODUCED WITH CERTAIN CONDITIONS

    In the event that it is decided that .au TLD is to be introduced, carsales recommends that additional protection for existing domain holders (in any of the existing .au 2LDs) be granted. These should include at a minimum the following:

    1. Automatic registration of the .au TLD for the existing registrant of the equivalent 2LD.

    Existing registrants are initially gifted the equivalent domain names within the .au TLD for 5 years where that holder elects to utilise the respective domain.


    2. A streamlined dispute resolution process to deal with cybersquatting once new registrations
    are permitted.

    3. Change to the duration of registrations across both .au TLD and 2LDs.

    2.1 .au domains reserved for 5 years at no cost for existing domain holders

    In the United Kingdom the new TLDs were reserved for the equivalent registered 2LD holders at no cost for 5 years. carsales recommends that auDA take the same approach. The introduction of .au TLDs will be an additional burden on existing 2LD holders and it is fair that some of that burden is relieved in the short to medium term while the new domains are being introduced.

    The United Kingdom also adopted a process for preferential allocation of the TLD so that the existing registrant of the .co.uk domain took first priority, followed by other 2LDs. carsales agrees with this approach. In the Australian context, .com.au is the most recognised of the 2LD and for that reason the TLD should be offered to the .com.au registrant first.

    Reserving the domain for 5 years also gives existing trade mark owners time to consider their trade mark portfolio and make any changes they consider necessary.

    2.2 Protocols for protecting against cybersquatting

    carsales agrees with the Panel’s view in relation to maintaining the existing eligibility criteria for com.au and net.au domain names, including making the appropriate changes to reflect the nationalised business names registrations where there is no disadvantage to registrants.

    In the event that .au TLDs are made available it is the view of carsales that the existing eligibility and allocation criteria should remain the same and be enforced to the extent they are applicable.

    carsales agrees with the Panel’s view in relation to maintaining the existing Prohibition on Misspellings Policy and complaints based enforcement mechanism. carsales also agrees with the recommendation to revise the audit list provisions to provide more flexibility in the way the policy is enforced.

    carsales agrees with the Panel’s view in relation to maintaining the existing Reserved List Policy for
    maintaining the integrity of the .au domain space.

    2.3 Offer domain registrations that last for 1 year and 5 years

    The view of Carsales is that the current 2 year renewal period is too short for domain name renewals within the .au. It is recommended that two terms (either additional or replacing the existing 2 year term) be introduced, both a longer term of 5 years, and a shorter term of 1 year.

    The longer 5 year term will reduce registrant overhead of managing the domains that will be continuously renewed, and reduce the risk of inadvertent lapsing of registrations.

    The shorter 1 year term will allow for increased utilisation of short term domain names for fixed period activities and events such as competitions, concerts etc."
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
  4. DomainNames

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    ASX listed companies made some very good points against the proposed additional competing extension.

    Why did the old Board not listen? Maybe the new Board will listen and overall those who are not even on the Board now?
     

    Attached Files:

  5. DomainNames

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    REA GROUP also made some good points the new auDA Board and PRP need to re read and listen to.

    Far better to not get involved with litigation with hundreds or thousands of ASX listed companies who could eat up auDA'S money in a few weeks of legals! ....auDA'S money is actually .au domain name registrant consumer money.

    Wait until REA Group gets the read the PRP suggestions and the audio of the Perth and Sydney PRP Public meetings!

    Hopefully they will come to Melbourne and Brisbane public meetings to witness the fiasco presented live and ask questions of the PRP who attend.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
  6. Horshack

    Horshack Membership: Community

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    When you only hold a licence to register a domain name and don't actually own it you can jump up and down and threaten legal action all you like but ultimately those that administer the domain name space determine the current and future conditions of that registration.
     
  7. findtim

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  8. DomainNames

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    I'm sure some people with their heads in the sand or heads in the clouds hope that is is true but the fact is it is not.

    Tim's suggestion https://www.auda.org.au/about-auda/our-org/constitution is just one part of the puzzle and a good read many seems to have never bothered to read and understand.

    Add in the issues around ASIC, ACCC, ACNC, DoCA, AFP, wholesale pricing and statements made it would be reduced from 10 years ago as domain name registration numbers increased, How contracts and tendering have been done which affect consumers, add in conflicts of interest, membership models, auDA minutes about stacking of memberships and votes on things, Government review....why 95% auDA staff turnover, FOI's..

    Why do you think auDA specifically is spending time discussing if their Director or Officer indemnity insurance will cover them. It won't in this case.

    MONEY MAX INT PTY LTD is also a game changer as far as Litigation Class Actions go.... but in the case of auDA look at 2.6 million .au domain name registrants who have been affected already by the actions and decisions of auDA. including probably every ASX listed company and also some overseas massive companies... do that maths.

    I won't list the full brief.... all I can say it is becoming far easier as things progress and more information comes to light such as the PRP meeting audio, presentations, minutes and suggestions and that's not even the juicy stuff which would come in discovery and subpoena.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
  9. DomainNames

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    My suggestions for the auDA Board to discuss tomorrow to help avoid litigation where possible which is their duty as Office Holders and Directors:

    1. Drop the .au wholesale pricing by 50% now that people know what it can be reduced to and what Afilias offered to win the new contract, that auDA has $20 million in the bank which raises significant "not for profit" eligibility and constitution questions. Announce this ASAP.... avoid investigations and further media http://www.smh.com.au/small-busines...n-name-owners-ripped-off-20170807-gxqpzs.html

    2. Drop the auDA and auDA Foundation fees by 50%. Announce this ASAP.... avoid investigations.

    [​IMG]


    3. Announce ASAP the proposed additional competing .au extension will not proceed.
    "As a practical matter, direct registrations could not be implemented".

    4. This will create stability in the .au namespace globally, increase trust in auDA and allow businesses to maintain the course. It will also stop some businesses from potentially going under or incurring further uncertainty and financial risk perhaps if their model was drop catching etc.

    A drop catcher said last week the suggestions of the PRP now public already have had a detrimental affect on their business and if implemented would shut their business. This is the very serious side of auDA and PRP statements, suggestions, presentations and decisions.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
  10. snoopy

    snoopy Membership: VIP

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    I would say auDA will get a significant volume increase if there is a big price reduction. So if they start "clawing back" the savings from the registry contract for themselves it could get to the situation where auDA just takes the place of Ausregistry, with large monopolistic profits flowing to them. The end result is little different to auDA's plans to run the registry, they just seem to want to take the money for themselves either way.

    The registry contract should be about consumers, the Australian public, not auDA.

    auDA are on track to end up with $50 million, $100million in the bank which would be a ridiculous situation.
     
  11. Horshack

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    No this is 100% true and perhaps you need to read the Domain Name Eligibility and Allocation Policy Rules. You are only applying for the right to register a domain name for 2 years and you don't actually own the domain name. The policy guidelines are very clear - "There are no proprietary rights in the domain name system (DNS). A registrant does not “own” a domain name. Instead, the registrant holds a licence to use a domain name, for a specified period of time and under certain terms and conditions." You are basically a tenant and not the landholder.
     
  12. snoopy

    snoopy Membership: VIP

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    I think this is a technical reading of it. In reality auDA is very limited in what they can do because they'd get sued if they decided to act as though they "own" the namespace (and would likely lose their government endorsement as well). They exist for the public good. See what happens if AUDA decides to act as landlord and set the renewal of realestate.com.au or microsoft.com.au to the "market rate" for such a property.

    It is a bit like saying a mining company doesn't own their mines, might be truly technically but in a practical sense it means little.
     
  13. findtim

    findtim Membership: VIP

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    a landholder also doesn't own the land, if they do not pay the rates the council will take it off them, nothing new there.
    these analogies are poor, and the list goes on.

    lets get back to the prp meeting on wednesday.
    tim
     
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  14. Horshack

    Horshack Membership: Community

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    You're right Snoopy they don't own their mines. They own the infrastructure but in Australia the states own the resources and the mining companies pay royalties to the state in return for mining those resources. Again there's that tenant/landlord analogy.
     
  15. DomainNames

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    auDA in the early 2000's could not get their head around allowing people to be able to sell domain names and then changed policy to allow it. .au policy and red tape was the laughing stock of the world when compared to that of the .com and even .co.uk and .co.nz etc.

    The incorrect claim was made back then by the former auDA decision makers that domain names could not be sold as it was only a license... obviously that massive error was eventually fixed with an update in mindset and policy. Once that mindset and policy changed far more registrations occurred and many other businesses where created. Some Registrars added drop catch platforms and aftermarket services etc. This in turn increased auDA income.

    Too much red tape and poor policy has hurt the .au namespoace for many years and it is still a major issue.

    Everyone should attend the PRP meetings who can.

    This image from Robert highlights it so well in his Perth PRP meeting summary.
    https://namebid.com.au/articles/15/auda_prp_direct_au_registration/
    "First Look at PRP Recommendations"

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
  16. Horshack

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    They made it very clear that you are only selling a transfer of the licence and not ownership of the domain name itself.
     
  17. snoopy

    snoopy Membership: VIP

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    It is just legal mumbo jumbo. Ask them who owns the domain if the registrant doesn't.
     
  18. DomainNames

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    Even auDA calls domain name registrants "Domain Name Owners"

    https://www.auda.org.au/
    "Domain Name Owners"
     
  19. DomainNames

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    Some history to consider. Should Brett Fenton be on the PRP?

    Why you should vote YES to opening .au for direct registrations
    Written on 03 September, 2015 by Brett Fenton
    Categories: Domains | Tags: domain names
    https://www.tppwholesale.com.au/blog/vote-yes-opening-au-direct-registrations/
    ______________________________
    http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2397630
    Brett Fenton
    Netregistry Group

    Service Provider
    reference: whrl.pl/RejnVm
    posted 2015-May-27, 6:23 pm AEST
    As a reminder there is less than a week to go in the public consultation process, you don't have to agree with me – but if you feel strongly you should use the opportunity to have a voice. It's important that we receive the right outcome for the .au space, which may be completely different to my own view and which is completely okay.

    I've written a blog article on it for our customers (WARNING – where I express a strong view):

    http://bit.ly/1J4ApwJ

    As a disclaimer, I'm on the Names Panel – the views I express in the Blog are my views not those of the Panel.

    I encourage people to either complete the survey (painless) or make a direct written submission (more painful).

    5 days till it closes."​
    ____________________
    Why we should have anything .au?
    Written on 27 May, 2015 by Brett Fenton
    https://www.netregistry.com.au/blog/why-we-should-have-anything-.au/

    If you’re too time-pressed to write your own submission, we’ve written a brief response to the questions, answering them with what we feel is the best outcome for Internet users in Australia. You are more than welcome to download it and use as is, or edit to reflect your personal views. The pro-forma response can be downloaded here, or at the below link (or you can view the pdf version here).


    http://www.netregistry.com.au/files/documents/forms/direct-rego-pro-forma.docx

    www.tppwholesale.com.au/download/direct-rego-pro-forma.docx
    Submissions deadline for responses to auDA is Monday 1st June, 2015.

    Brett's / TPP ETC. YES ONLY OPTION VOTE FORM?

    " Jo Lim, Chief Operations and Policy Officer, auDA
    email: jo.lim@auda.org.au
    fax: 03 8341 4112
    Dear Jo Lim,

    I, <insert name>, would like to make the following submission in response to the 2015 Names Policy Panel Issues Paper that was recently published for public review and comment.

    1) Direct Registrations in .au

    There is clear demand for domain name policy that simplifies the .au space, increases choice for registrants and ensures the continuing relevance of the .au brand in a market flooded by new generic Top Level Domains. (FALSE)

    Now is the time to commit to the introduction of registrations in the second level (i.e anything.au). Other markets such as .uk and .nz have successfully enacted this change and provide compelling case studies for us to follow. (FALSE)

    There is too much poorly understood policy in the existing open .au domain spaces. New registrations should not be burdened by the same degree of red tape. New registrations in the second level must be open to anybody with an Australian postal address. ( SO FOREIGNERS CAN USE AN AUSTRALIAN POSTAL ADDRESS AND GET THE .AU ? )

    The implementation process should be a separate project. It should involve a brief sunrise period to protect the rights of genuine, existing trademark holders. After the sunrise, the space should be opened to the public through a land rush process that allows for domains to be registered on a "first come, first served" basis. (CRAZY)

    2) Existing 2LD eligibility and allocation policy rules

    a) The restriction of license periods to exactly 2 years is an administrative burden which limits choice. It serves no public benefit in a highly competitive market and should be immediately removed to allow for license periods of 1 to 10 years. (YES)

    b) The principles of "first come, first served" need to be retained. Further, auDA should engage in a process of ongoing public education that reinforces this message.

    c) It is confusing to have different domain spaces with identical sets of policy rules (e.g.: .com.au/.net.au and .org.au/.asn.au). This should be used as an opportunity to streamline policy within existing spaces, making it accessible to the wide community of users. (CRAZY. SOME RULES ARE NEEDED. .GOV.AU, .ASN.AU .ORG.AU .ID.AU ETC ALL HAVE THEIR RELEVANCE AND PEOPLE KNOW THIS)

    The rules for .net.au and .asn.au should be removed so that both become open spaces for all Australians. (Restrictions should also be removed from use of id.au. CRAZY)

    d) The "close and substantial" rule appears to be working as is. (YES OR REMOVE THE NEED FOR IT COMPLETELY LIKE MOST WORLD EXTENSIONS INCLDUING .COM .UK .NZ ETC)

    3) Other 2LD policy rules (reserved list and misspellings)

    The existing policies on the reserved names and misspellings are suitable as is. However, domains on the list should be not able to be registered at the Registry. They should show up as unavailable in a domain search.

    Sincerely,
    <insert name>
    <insert position>
    <insert company>"
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
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  20. snoopy

    snoopy Membership: VIP

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    lol that is pretty funny, almost the first thing on their site!

    It is a bit like auDA insisting directors don't represent the group who elected them because of some documents they have signed, whilst at the same time it says "supply" and "demand" next to each directors name on auDA's website.
     
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