Netfleet Auctions - are they serious??

[shags38]

I haven't been in lately so maybe there has been some discussion on this that I have missed.

I am still shaking my head after reading the Netfleet Aftermarket Auctions guidelines.

With the introduction of the "new" aftermarket auction format the $5 listing fee has been deleted - sounds great.

Reserve Fee? as far as I am aware the program being used does this stuff automatically, there is no administrative costs involved in having a reserve price entered. So why the 4% fee?

8% Sale Commission - "one of the smallest fees charged in the industry" - what "industry" ? - is there more than one Au domain aftermarket auction in Australia? - if so can someone let me know what the others are Surely it can't be a reference to Sedo or Go Daddy or any other overseas based auctions surcharges?

Regarding the reserve fee, Netfleet encourages no reserve be set. Interesting. Why?

Domain is listed with no reserve, minimum bid ($100) wins - 8% commission = $8, COR = $70 ($90 at Netregistry, Netfleets Partner), original Cost of domain registration = $22. Total OUTGOINGS = $100 ($120 maybe). Hardly worth the exercise to get a zero return (or minus $20) on $100 outlay - so maybe add a reserve so that at least you make a few dollars?

Set the reserve at a measly $150 = $6 fee @4%. Domain sells @ reserve = return of $32 on costs ($12 if COR done through Netregistry).

Why are the rules set that the seller is responsible for paying for the Change Of Registrant fees? Domains are generally referred to as Internet Real Estate - if I sell a house the buyer pays the conveyancing fees, not me - I pay the Real Estate Agent for listing my house (not selling it, they don't sell it, a buyer buys it). If Netfleet are adamant on this process then the minimum bid in my humble opinion should be increased to offset that misguided rule, to say $150 which by looking at the sums above would on average return the lister about $44.

"So Mike, if you don't like it don't list your domains with Netfleet Aftermarket Auctions" I hear you say (or think). Fair call, something worth considering.

I was the proponent a while back which with support from other posters encouraged Netfleet to start the aftermarket auctions up again by charging $5 per listing (they were dormant at that time, check archives) and I still agree that there should be a listing fee. I just cannot understand the reserve fee - it is in my opinion nothing but the $5 listing fee by another name and by significantly larger amounts dependent on the reserve figure set, kinda like an increase in commission rate by another name. I still suggest that there is no administrative cost in inserting the reserve figure, certainly not in any auction programs I have seen of late, purchased or OS versions .

So the above is relative to what I will call "marginal" domains - we all have them - domains that may or may not sell and if the sell would not sell for much - I am not talking about domains that will sell for reasonable prices (and what is that benchmark you may ask - I don't know but would suggest it is more than $150).

So David and Mark I would be interested in your responses - I could have sent this via a ticket on your site but thought you would gain some insight by reading some response posts from your customers / potential customers

cheers,
Mike

 

[Mark]

Hi Shags

So why the 4% fee?

To encourage no reserve, or at least as low reserve as possible.

8% Sale Commission - "one of the smallest fees charged in the industry" - what "industry" ? - is there more than one Au domain aftermarket auction in Australia? - if so can someone let me know what the others are Surely it can't be a reference to Sedo or Go Daddy or any other overseas based auctions surcharges?

Any domain auction platform in the world, including Sedo or Godaddy

Regarding the reserve fee, Netfleet encourages no reserve be set. Interesting. Why?

So there is a higher chance of domains selling. A good bunch of our clients are retail, single domain owners, and if left to their own devices we risk wild reserve prices.

Why are the rules set that the seller is responsible for paying for the Change Of Registrant fees?

As this price is controlled by the seller, and if they do not absorb this cost, then buyers face a hidden fee at the end of the transaction, meaning a higher chance of fall over.

I would also suggest using VentraIP for COR - it costs $20.

Our AMA's are work in progress of course, and we do intend to juggle pricing and format over the coming weeks and months to find the best match for all concerned.

Thanks
Mark

 

[shags38]

Hi Shags



To encourage no reserve, or at least as low reserve as possible.



Any domain auction platform in the world, including Sedo or Godaddy



So there is a higher chance of domains selling. A good bunch of our clients are retail, single domain owners, and if left to their own devices we risk wild reserve prices.



As this price is controlled by the seller, and if they do not absorb this cost, then buyers face a hidden fee at the end of the transaction, meaning a higher chance of fall over.

I would also suggest using VentraIP for COR - it costs $20.

Our AMA's are work in progress of course, and we do intend to juggle pricing and format over the coming weeks and months to find the best match for all concerned.

Thanks
Mark

thanks for the response Mark,

As this price is controlled by the seller, and if they do not absorb this cost, then buyers face a hidden fee at the end of the transaction, meaning a higher chance of fall over.

"Hidden" .... who is hiding anything?
The same potential for fall-over exists after sale when the seller informs the buyer that they need have an ABN !..oops. (happened to me again recently, standard listing sales not ama, same root problem though).
The guidelines for buyers, controlled by Netfleet, could, should include statements that to bid you must have an ABN first and foremost - I would assume that this is part of the buyers registration process?, and secondly as part of that buyers registration process that they agree to the COR costs.
That would take care of the "hidden" aspect. As would a little flash alert on the auction page.

"and if they do not absorb this cost" - how can that cost be absorbed at a $100 sale - would your business absorb that cost at that return on investment ratio ??

"I would also suggest using VentraIP for COR - it costs $20". - does that include the 2 year renewal of registration?

"Our AMA's are work in progress of course, and we do intend to juggle pricing and format over the coming weeks and months to find the best match for all concerned". Good to hear that this is not the final version - maybe before releasing subsequent versions it may be helpful to ask domainers what they think

Not to be pedantic but "To encourage no reserve, or at least as low reserve as possible". - means what, why? to what end? What is the advantage of not having a reserve?

Mark, it is fully understood that Netfleet isn't conducting AMA's for love but rather that it is a commercial enterprise so it must produce an acceptable profit however taking a good look at what fees and other charges are being attributed to sellers may reveal a possible negative effect on revenue generation, i.e. if it is more commercially viable (less outlay loss risk) for sellers to list their domains then there may be more domains listed that could lead to greater revenue generation. Food for thought.

As I indicated earlier, one idea to alleviate losses (or zero return) by sellers would be increasing the minimum bid to $150 - anyone else have thoughts on this?

cheers,
Mike

 

[Mark]

thanks for the response Mark,
"Hidden" .... who is hiding anything?

Ok, bad choice of words with "hidden" - "unknown" would be better.

The same potential for fall-over exists after sale when the seller informs the buyer that they need have an ABN !..oops. (happened to me again recently, standard listing sales not ama, same root problem though).
The guidelines for buyers, controlled by Netfleet, could, should include statements that to bid you must have an ABN first and foremost - I would assume that this is part of the buyers registration process?, and secondly as part of that buyers registration process that they agree to the COR costs.
That would take care of the "hidden" aspect. As would a little flash alert on the auction page.

All buyers on the AMA have to register with their ABN/ACN. The COR fee differs between owners/domain names so it is always unknown to the buyer.

"and if they do not absorb this cost" - how can that cost be absorbed at a $100 sale - would your business absorb that cost at that return on investment ratio ??

Yes - with $20 COR I sure would. I would also hope that not every sale ends at the minimum.

"I would also suggest using VentraIP for COR - it costs $20". - does that include the 2 year renewal of registration?

Yes.

Not to be pedantic but "To encourage no reserve, or at least as low reserve as possible". - means what, why? to what end? What is the advantage of not having a reserve?

So there is a higher chance of domains selling. A good bunch of our clients are retail, single domain owners, and if left to their own devices we risk wild reserve prices.

Thanks
Mark

 

[shags38]

Mark,

again thanks for your responses. From them I learned at least one thing - about VentraIP and the no charge for the COR. So that sheds a different light on the calculations I put forward - I was working on the fees for COR charged by my two registrars - huge difference.

thanks,
Mike

 

[neddy]

Just thought I would add my observations (for whatever they are worth).

• Commission at 8% with no listing fee is very cheap - particularly considering the platform that NF have provided.
  
  
• I have changed my attitude in recent times about COR fee. I still charge it to buyers, but now I either build it into my price or add it on to the invoice. This way I keep the whole process under my control. Far preferable imho. So I like what NF are doing.
  
  
• I'm not a fan of the "reserve fee" based on % though. I do understand the reasoning behind it, but I would prefer that there were two options: a) free listing - no reserve; or b) paid listing at a standard fee of say $50 with a reserve of my choice. I think it just keeps things simpler.

 

[Chris.C]

Just thought I would add my observations (for whatever they are worth).

• Commission at 8% with no listing fee is very cheap - particularly considering the platform that NF have provided.
  
  
• I have changed my attitude in recent times about COR fee. I still charge it to buyers, but now I either build it into my price or add it on to the invoice. This way I keep the whole process under my control. Far preferable imho. So I like what NF are doing.
  
  
• I'm not a fan of the "reserve fee" based on % though. I do understand the reasoning behind it, but I would prefer that there were two options: a) free listing - no reserve; or b) paid listing at a standard fee of say $50 with a reserve of my choice. I think it just keeps things simpler.

I agree with everything Neddy has said. 8% is good value. COR is becoming less of an issue as we see prices fall and processes streamlined. And I too find the 4% reserve annoying, given the volatility in the number of buyers that rock up at domain auctions, I'd like to see it dropped back to 1% or 2% or having a fixed "reserve fee" of something like $10 - $20. I just think 4% is too much risk given the prospects of a non-sale.

 

[johno69]

I just think 4% is too much risk given the prospects of a non-sale.

Do we have stats on % of domains sold at the AMA ? Might give some weight to your thoughts.

 

[Chris.C]

Do we have stats on % of domains sold at the AMA ? Might give some weight to your thoughts.

I don't personally have stats, and I don't know if anyone on these forums is keeping stats, but it would be awesome to have a dedicated page on NF that listed the prices domains sold for and passed in at.

 

[DavidL]

I think the concept of a listing fee and a 'reserve fee' makes great sense from the point of generating a platform that actually gets results

1) the listing fee will prevent much of the absolute crap from listing which is never going to sell in a million years. Even $1/domain would make people think twice
2) the reserve fee pegged against the reserve set forces all sellers to be somewhat realistic. Maybe 4% is too much, I'm not sure. Remember though it is 'refunded' should the domain sell.

When it comes to auctions, you have to admire the leaders - Ebay. They charge both a listing fee and a fee dependent on reserve (starting price) and it seems to work well for them.

So David and Mark I would be interested in your responses -

Shags, - I'm no longer involved in Netfleet but concentrating on the core business - domaining & developing... and loving it

 

[Joel]

...but it would be awesome to have a dedicated page on NF that listed the prices domains sold for and passed in at.

Would be nice for interests sake however I don't think they'll end up doing it.