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Gonna be a big one at Domain8 on Monday...

Discussion in 'General Domain Discussion' started by Jonathan, Oct 25, 2009.

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  1. DavidL

    DavidL Membership: VIP

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    Hi Guys,

    Some of you have probably worked out that we snapped the name :)

    As you know we launched the backorder service last week and, whilst this is a very different service to those offered by D8 and DW, we've been testing every day often using names that are on the drop lists so we can gauge how competitive we can be at catching the names.

    We're particularly pleased we got this one as I expect both the drop services would have put a lot of resources into catching it so hopefully this shows we're starting to get the magic formula just right ;) Of course this will all change now thanks to http://www.dntrade.com.au/auda-new-drop-list-come-p3883.html#post3883

    So, please feel free to grab those backorder spots - remember first in best dressed! Also, please do be aware that backorders do not start until 6pm the following business day in which they are placed so please don't try to use the published lists on D8 and DW.

    There are plenty of other inventive ways to figure out what domains are likely to drop....
     
  2. soj

    soj Founder

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    Great work David, I think you'll be getting a whole lot more orders for your backorder service now that you have proven what you can do.
     
  3. geodomains

    geodomains Membership: VIP

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    Hi David,
    Well done on snapping those domains, got to admit not a bad start for your service.

    Don
     
  4. MythBuster

    MythBuster Membership: Community

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    Poacher or Gamekeeper?

    I have been a silent observer for some time, but now feel the need to make a post. I am a great believer in the free market, but I also believe in a level playing field for all.

    Netfleet's claim about snapping the name (townsville.com.au) needs to be analysed carefully. What has happened today is a travesty in my opinion, and here's why:

    The Registrant is NetAlliance Pty Ltd. My understanding is that this is a j/v between NetRegistry (a Registrar) and Netfleet. Read here: http://www.ecommercereport.com.au/story63.php

    auDA policy states that a Registrar shouldn't be involved in profiting from domains (amongst other things) - see here: http://www.auda.org.au/policies/auda-2008-11/

    The Registrar of townsville.com.au is MD Web Hosting - owned by NetRegistry I think.

    Have a look at whoIs and then please join the dots. Am I wrong in thinking this is unfair or unethical?
     
  5. Jonathan

    Jonathan Membership: Community

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    Nice work David! Just wondering, did you need direct registry access to pull off that catch?
     
  6. Jonathan

    Jonathan Membership: Community

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    MB: Interesting. But wouldn't that mean D8, which is also an accredited registrar, be in breach of Auda policy too?
     
  7. geodomains

    geodomains Membership: VIP

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    Hi MB,
    Certainly does open a can of worms, maybe David would like to respond.
    I suppose, because the listed owner is NetAlliance Pty Ltd does make you wonder why a registrar was involved with buying geo domains, if this is the case?

    Don
     
  8. Rhythm

    Rhythm Membership: VIP

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    I'm more than happy to volunteer myself as the 'Customer'.

    Otherwise feel free to sell it to me in good faith at breakeven/loss...
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2009
  9. neddy

    neddy Membership: VIP

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    Hi David,

    I took my hat off to you earlier in the day, because you pipped me at the post on a number of domains that I was bidding on. But having read Mythbuster's and Don's post, and following all the links, I now have some real questions in my mind.

    Given your association with NetRegistry, it seems as if you have an advantage over the rest of us when it comes to the drops. This, in my opinion, shouldn't be the case, so I hope I'm wrong.

    I am a great admirer of what you guys have done with NetFleet, but I do believe in fair play.

    Please set my mind at rest.

    Cheers, Ned
     
  10. Occy

    Occy Membership: Community

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    Not to detract from the anticipation of David's reply

    Has anyone noticed how Namewise manages to register domains through DW even when their system has glitches. Coincidence??

    Occy

    :confused::confused::confused:
     
  11. paz

    paz Member

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    That's gotta be the investment of the year netfleet!

    ~$20 to register and easily marketable to end users for $25k
     
  12. Occy

    Occy Membership: Community

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    D8 doesn't register names for themselves so are not in breach of policy. Why would they when they make a substantial amount out of their auction.

    Netfleet/Netalliance however are registering names and are part owned by a registrar so potentially are in breech of policy. auDA won't investigate unless someone puts in a complaint

    Occy
     
  13. neddy

    neddy Membership: VIP

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    Hi Paz,

    That's the whole point that's now up for discussion. Is it fair on the rest of us mere mortals who bid on an open market with real hard earned money?

    If NetFleet weren't 50% owned by a Registrar, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

    I for one really need some answers here.

    Cheers, Ned
     
  14. iejs

    iejs Membership: VIP

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    The issue of whether or not NetAlliance can register dropped domains due to their connection with NetRegistry raises some serious questions.

    I, like others here, thought I was bidding on an open playing field. Now I'm not so sure.

    I'm really interested to know Netfleet's feedback.
     
  15. soj

    soj Founder

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    How many previous auctions have domains been snapped up by NetAlliance while under their current Joint-Venture?
     
  16. DomainMarketPlace

    DomainMarketPlace Membership: Community

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    Front running won't be looked upon favourably by auDA. Safe to say you can expect complaints to be made about this...
     
  17. DavidL

    DavidL Membership: VIP

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    Hi Guys,

    Hasn't this thread built up a head of steam? Driven by a few mysterious posters and a couple of well placed posts stirring the pot.

    Anyway first, I'd like to thank everybody who had the strength of character to look past any possible envy and offer their congratulations in snapping the domain. Apart from the posts on this thread I've had lots of calls, emails & IM's and the first person to say 'well done' was George from D8 which says a lot for his character seeing as he had the most to lose.

    It's important to me that our reputation is beyond reproach so I'm going to carefully address each of the issues that have been raised. May as well start with First Time Poster, Mythbuster (wonder what prompted his first ever post today of all days?)

    OK so what has Mythbuster actually busted? That the whois info says the registrant is NetAlliance (aka Netfleet)? He could have saved himself entering that damn captcha code and read my post above. What else - maybe that Netfleet is connected to Netregistry? I think we all knew that didn't we? The only point worth considering that he's brought up is the one regarding auDA policy which I’ll address in a sec.

    Let me ask a couple of questions:

    1) Does anybody know exactly how the drop system works or the best method to snap a domain? Does anyone doubt that it is an extremely complex (more and more as you did deeper) problem to solve (combining connections, domains, scripts etc for maximum efficiency)?

    2) If the answer to 1) is no, then it's pretty obvious what you have to do to be any good at it. You have to test. Test, modify, test again.

    It would be completely wrong of us to charge for a service (the backorder) on theory & estimates alone. We need to test how competitive we can be in real time and the only way to do that is to choose names that are going to be chased by D8 and DW. Competitive names (after all most of the backordered names so far are the top generics).

    MB (or anybody), if you have any idea whatsoever how we can launch a backorder service without testing & refining how we snap competitive names, then let me know.

    As for the issue of Policy. As I said, we registered the domain as part of our testing. I have no question that this complies 100% with policy. That part of the policy is intended to prevent 'warehousing' of domains by registrars. Considering that townsville.com.au is the 2nd domain to be registered by NetAlliance (the first being Netfleet.com.au), I don't think anyone can accuse us of that.

    However I'm sure auDA are well aware of what has happened and I urge anyone who feels 'badly done by' to lodge a complaint.


    Hi Ned,

    I’m sorry to hear you are concerned. So what questions exactly do you have? You didn’t actually mention what they were in your post. Are you sure you are not just looking to stir the pot a bit with just a suggestion that it's not 100% fair play.

    Do we have an advantage at catching names that the 'rest of you'? Yes we do and of course you know that! Our work over the last few months, technology, resources and association with NR does indeed give us a huge advantage with catching names.

    If it didn't, our backorder service would be a real dud. That would not be fair - all these people paying good money for us to attempt to snap them only for us to not use all our resources to deliver the best possible results.


    Hi Occy, another First Time Poster (why today... hmmm) - I'd suggest to file a complaint with auDA and see what they say. I'm confident we have done absolutely nothing untoward through reasons I've already explained.



    Oh Hi Ned, back to stoke the flames a little?

    If Netfleet weren't 50% owned by a registrar, we wouldn't have the aftermarket the way it is at the moment. We wouldn't even be considering a backorder service.

    For the last time, YES, the NR alliance gives us a massive benefit in snapping domains but no more so than D8 and DW.


    Soj, none. Not through lack of trying but we have some stiff competition – hence our testing & refinding.

    DMP – I have no doubt. But I don’t think anyone on this board truly believes we’ve done the wrong thing or acted in bad faith.


    I hope I've covered any issues now. Sorry I've rambled on a bit. Just to summarise:

    1) We grabbed this name as part of our testing (which you know we had to do)
    2) We haven't breached any policy (as auDA will find IF they deem it warrants investigating)
    3) Not attempting to snap names like this would be unethical as it doesn't do justice to our Netfleet paying customers (who's interests come first)

    Thanks guys!
     
  18. dotworx

    dotworx Membership: Community

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    Hi David,

    In fact I knew the domain townsville.com.au was dropping, and was tempted to backorder it last Wednesday when your backorder service was announced. If I had backordered it, I would have got it for $12.95? ;-)

    Since townsville.com.au is such a highly desirable name that has been registered by your system for testing purpose, what is going to happen to it as well as a few other ones grabbed by your system yesterday: RedHill.com.au, Killcare.com.au, HardysBay.com.au?

    These are all nice names, and it would be a shame if they just sit there idle for testing. Does NetAlliance have any plan to "release" them?

    Thanks,
    Jeph
     
  19. geodomains

    geodomains Membership: VIP

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    Hi David,
    Thanks for your reply to everyone. You certainly showed that the service works, I think what is annoying everyone and you fail to see, is.

    One of the biggest registrars is involved in capturing these domains with you, if was just you, I don't think anyone would care.

    Registrars are not suppose to be buying domains for profit, if that happened, its similar to a realestate agent grabbing a property before it is released to the open market. And we know what happens to them on TV.

    I would have a long hard look at what you've done with Netregistry.

    Don
     
  20. neddy

    neddy Membership: VIP

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    David,

    It does you no credit to attack me personally, plus accuse me of "stirring the pot". I thought my questions were reasonable - and also courteously put. I also know from talking personally to many other domainers that my feelings are shared.

    If you are not going to take note of what your customers and fellow domainers think, then I believe you will have a perception problem.

    There is nothing wrong with testing your new "Domain Snapper" - but what is wrong i.m.h.o is using all the resources of your partner to acquire half a dozen Geo domains for yourselves! And when one of the domains had a bid of $14k on one drop catcher, and $12.5k on the other (and heaps of bids), then obviously you have to expect some flack.

    If you had acquired these for an arms length client or customer of NetFleet, then bravo and full credit to you. Hey either Don or myself (and probably a hundred others!) would have loved to be your guinea pigs! But the fact is you acquired them for yourselves (being NetRegistry and NetFleet joint venture). And no doubt you intend to profit from them? And if you do then this is clearly a breach of auDA's policies (as far as NR is concerned).

    So I have a suggestion for you which could smooth the waters. You've proved your system works, so why not do something very remarkable and hold a mini-auction to onsell these domains? All profits of course over and above your registration fee should be given to a charity of your choice.

    How about that? Just think of the great publicity for NetFleet!

    Cheers, Ned
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2009
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