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Domainer Blog

Discussion in 'Resources & Success Stories' started by neddy, Apr 24, 2015.

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  1. neddy

    neddy Membership: VIP

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    Snoopy, I'm pleased to see that you actually read my article.

    If you want to keep pushing "your particular barrow up your particular hill", that is your right. Personally, I prefer to fly.

    I won't debate you on here, but if you care to post your comments on the actual article, I would be delighted to respond.

    And as I said to you on Thursday night, there are quite a few of us in the .au space that are doing very well. Seriously. Reported sales pale into insignificance. I have no reason to fabricate results; nor do people like Erhan and others.

    To borrow your signature line: "The easiest way to figure out if your domains are any good is to look at your tax return". I reckon I must have (and had) some good domains. ;)

    Cheers, Ned
     
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  2. snoopy

    snoopy Membership: VIP

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    I don't doubt some are making a profit. But I think the numbers of people are very low. I've met a total of 1 person who makes a living from domaining in .com.au.

    Can I ask why you post links to your blog here but aren't willing to discuss the content here where you just posted it? I know you want to promote the site but don't you think that is a bit crap for dntrade?
     
  3. neddy

    neddy Membership: VIP

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    Of course I want to promote domainer.com.au. And if an article on there makes you want to comment, then do so there.

    As for being "crap for dntrade", I had the courtesy to ask Chris first before doing outbound links to domainer.com.au (right from the get-go). He is very happy to promote domaining in Australia; and has offered his support to make domainer.com.au a success. His attitude is that if we help each other we all win. As you will notice, he has "liked" a number of my posts.

    Keep pushing that barrow of yours uphill. ;)
     
  4. snoopy

    snoopy Membership: VIP

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    Just saying I think it is not great that someone would post a link to a blog article but not be willing to discuss it here, and insist people do so on their blog.
     
  5. neddy

    neddy Membership: VIP

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    Is that the best you've got Snoopy? ;)

    I mean you went to domainer.com.au and read the article, so why not respond there? You do on other blogs.

    Not everyone is a member of DNT - I get a lot of eyeballs on my posts from LinkedIn (which I work very hard at). So if you post your comments on domainer.com.au, there is a good chance that non-domainers will read them too. Plus they can then read my responses to your point of view, and then make their own minds up.
     
  6. snoopy

    snoopy Membership: VIP

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    Ned, that is my view. If someone posts a link to their blog but will only discuss the content on the actual blog rather than in the thread that is poor in my view. Not sure if you'd like me to say it in half a dozen different ways?

    You are asking me why I didn't post on the blog, sometimes I post on the blog sometimes I post in the thread, sometimes I do both. I don't think it matters. Think you should focus on "discussion" rather than "promotion".
     
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  7. neddy

    neddy Membership: VIP

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    You're entitled to your point of view as always Paul. As I said, I have a different one.

    Also, like quite a few others on here, I particularly have a different attitude to you when it comes to the .au domain space. I'm a positive guy.
     
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  8. petermeadit

    petermeadit Membership: VIP

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    Hi Paul and Ned, as you know we are very community focussed here, so from my point of view, always happy to help others and it is a contribution to the community. So linking out tastefully is ok, as I am sure the courtesy is returned. Always happy for a genuine discussion to take place on the relevant platform.
     
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  9. neddy

    neddy Membership: VIP

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    Thanks for your post on domainer.com.au Peter - sentiments are reciprocated.
     
  10. eBranding.com.au

    eBranding.com.au Membership: VIP

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    I think I've mentioned/linked to DNTrade in 2 or 3 articles on Domainer.com.au just in the last month! :D
    Both sites have been quite openly supportive of each other. It's a tight-knit industry and promoting increased activity in the .au space benefits everyone.
     
  11. findtim

    findtim Membership: VIP

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    constructive, open, firm discussion is good, better to know where people stand then to be stabbed in the back.
    domainer has added another element to the industry just like as an example jame's posts/links in the past, its all about the transfer of information and the difference of opinion.

    we have a saying in our office " chocolate or vanilla.......... its just a choice "

    and you have to ask yourself "how did you find DNT " ? , something lead to something and you ended up here and became a member, links from domainer, james blog and many others all have the ability to bring more members ......... MORE KNOWLEDGE to all of us.
    snoopy i can see your point but we don't have to agree with what you have decided the rules should be.

    tim
     
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  12. Ash

    Ash Membership: Trader

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    Hey Demonoid, your link's broken :p
     
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  13. eBranding.com.au

    eBranding.com.au Membership: VIP

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    I should have used bolding for emphasis! :p
     
  14. Chris.C

    Chris.C Membership: VIP

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    Snoopy I agree that domain auctions don't naturally attract end users and thus take a lot of time to sell which can make them an unattractive investment for some (especially if you've wrapped your capital up in domains that aren't attracting interest).

    That said, despite the illiquidity I think this intrinsic value of a domain is FAR higher than property.

    The way I see it, the people buying a domain are buying a vacant block of "land" and the website is the "property development".

    Land closer to the CBD and inner suburbs gets a premium price because there are more people wanting to be closer to where they work and socialise (as well as being able to build bigger buildings on the land ie multi-story apartments).

    Most property developments in capital cities need to allocate anywhere form 20% - 40% of their development total costs to the purchase of the land.

    Completed property developments at end user prices typically yield around 4% - 7% return pa (ie via rents)...

    How's that compare with a premium domain - well to keep land to development costs even a $3000 domain with $7000 development costs - in my experience could very easily bring in an extra $10,000 to $100,000 (ie via profits), giving it a yield well over a 100% - 1000% pa IF you are the end user...

    The problem is property being ubiquitous and durable means that there are 10 million potential buyers (end users) who can make an 4% - 7% yield on the property so prices are stable and the asset is liquid, where as with domains there are probably 10 - 100 potential buyers (end users) who can make a 100% - 1000% return pa, but with so few buyers prices are unstable and the asset is illiquid.

    Based on these figures the market is indicating that a domain investment is 20 - 200 times more RISKY than a standard property development.

    Obviously I feel the market is pricing in too much risk, but for me the most disappointing thing is the lack of wholesale liquidity (because at one point this was close to being achieved with NFs AMA) because without it a domain investment becomes more like a "sunk cost" rather than an "asset" and I believe that improved market liquidity alone would push up the value of all AU domains.

    And it's a relatively simple problem to solve if the industry was willing to work together as it really only requires all wholesale buyers to congregate together on a platform that also allows domain owners to auction off their domains with the confidence that wholesale buyers are always present at the auction.
     
  15. snoopy

    snoopy Membership: VIP

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    There is endusers but their number is limited at it is usually decades before they come forward. Their return is completely unknown, rather than the claimed 100%-1000%. I think you you just made up that number.

    What matters though is what some can make holding a portfolio of domains. Dreaming that domains are underpriced will get you nowhere.

    The comment that the "intrinsic value of a domain is FAR higher than property" is poppycock because the typical domain is worth $0-$10 whilst the typical property is around $500,000-$600,000 in Australia.
     
  16. Chris.C

    Chris.C Membership: VIP

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    Of course the number is made up, there isn't exactly a central body that collates the earnings yields of private website developments that have taken place on premium domains...

    I was a website developer that was heavily involved in SEO/SEM/CRO before I ever got involved in buying domains. I bought premium domains because I realised there intrinsic value from a development and marketing perspective.

    So I haven't pulled that figure out of nowhere. It's based on my anecdotal experience across dozens of sites I've developed for both myself and others. Premium domains make a HUGE difference to launching new business websites.

    At the same time, I realise they are not the be all and end all either, your underlying business matters more.

    So I'm not saying you'll make more money renting out caravans than you would renting out a high rise apartment block, I'm saying that even a caravan park in the CBD will get more customers and higher yields than a caravan park that's in the middle of nowhere.


    I agree, but I feel a "buy and hold" strategy with regards to domain investments would have better potential to work if there was a central clearing house in which investors could participate.

    Yes land in Australian CBDs sells for $10,000/m2, but 200km out of the CBD it sells for $0 - $10/m2 just like shit domains...

    :D
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2015
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  17. snoopy

    snoopy Membership: VIP

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    Have you ever seen land sell for $0-$10 like most domains do? There is probably some land that has sold more amount but 99.99% is in 6 figures. For .com.au there has been a handful of sales reported at that level. I'm still curious as to how "intrinsic value of a domain is FAR higher than property".
     
  18. Chris.C

    Chris.C Membership: VIP

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    HAHA Snoopy I get your point (a domain is worth what the "market" is willing to pay), but obviously as domainers we believe there is intrinsic value to domains or we wouldn't own them (and just because the "market" doesn't see that doesn't mean it's not there).

    And I get your point that to be a successful domainer, given the illiquidity of the "domain market" a domainer has to be willing and able to get out there and "market" (pun intended) the domain and its value because the market is unlikely to come to the domainer.

    ;)

    But I have to disengage from this debate now, I feel like we've hijacked this thread enough, so stop baiting me...

    :D

    Maybe the above discussion will make for some good content for a blog post on the Domainer Blog (which I really like BTW)...
     
  19. neddy

    neddy Membership: VIP

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    I often get asked by people what I do for a living. As a full-time domainer, it can sometimes be hard to describe (quickly and easily that is!).

    So I just wrote a blog article about it.

    Also posted this on LinkedIn Pulse, and got some good comments there. Would be happy to connect on LinkedIn with anyone I'm not already connected to. It's a great resource to meet people from all different industries.
     
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  20. neddy

    neddy Membership: VIP

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