What do you think?

[Blue Wren]

Hello Members.

Got a question I'm hoping members here will comment on.

Earlier this month I hand-registered a GEO domain which expired from the auction sites at 1pm. Nobody bid so I registered it.

The site is from a very very small town on the Mid North Coast of NSW, and I did some time at Primary School there and lived there when I was young. I have since made a local, community based website out of the domain which I tend to daily.

Now here's the rub.

I received an email today from the former registrant. The former registrant happens to be a large, fermented grape drink company, and has a product named the same as the geo.

The person writing me the email goes on to say that his employer has owned and operated the domain with a site for many many years and is trying to figure out how ownership has passed to me. He is asking if I can answer this question for him.

It is clear that he (or someone in the company) has WHOIS'ed the domain, as they contacted me on the WHOIS email. (The contact form email on the geo domain is different).

So my question is; should I respond? or...?
How do you feel I should approach this situation?

Thank you

 

[johno69]

I would answer.

I would say that the domain was available for registration so you registered it.

That covers their question.

I didn't think email was visible via Whois on au domains. Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong place.

 

[findtim]

i think you should answer, nicely as johno69 suggested explaining simply it was available so you registered it and give them your phone number.

the silly thing is if they were using it why didn't they know the website stopped functioning?

".......many many years " is it on http://archive.org/web/web.php ?

catch the spark before it turns into a BUSHFIRE, pick up the phone to the person that makes decisions and talk about it, "very very small town " whats the goal? think WIN WIN.

tim

 

[FirstPageResults]

I didn't think email was visible via Whois on au domains. Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong place.

Only if you use the AusReg whois AFAIK

whois.ausregistry.net.au

 

[Blue Wren]

Only if you use the AusReg whois AFAIK

whois.ausregistry.net.au

That's all I use.

 

[GGroup]

It's probably best to reply and, as johno69 said, answer their question.

While I don't necessarily disagree with findtim, I feel giving them your number with the view of hashing it out is a 50/50 proposition. Considering the variables involved, I would have to doubt it ending in a group hug.

Again, findtim's points on why they didn't notice their site down for a month or whether or not it has made it into the web archive are not disagreeable. But it may be prudent to avoid voluntarily injecting yourself into a debate by not commenting on these, or similar, at this stage.

You don't know what is/has been said internally within the company and I'd guess company employee X would much rather it seem a case of that evil Blue Wren guy swooped in and maliciously stole our heirloom rather than accepting a mistake of their own part. So keep it simple and civil.

 

[Chris.C]

Earlier this month I hand-registered a GEO domain which expired from the auction sites at 1pm. Nobody bid so I registered it.

Is the term trademarked?

If not, sounds all above board.

I received an email today from the former registrant.

This is just one of those things that happens when you buy domains that have been dropped.

It's happened to me a few time - I normally just respond explaining what has happened.

Normally once you explain to them that it was their fault and you just bought something that wasn't trademarked and that you saw value in they can't really be angry at you.

The former registrant happens to be a large, fermented grape drink company, and has a product named the same as the geo.

Wine company aye... make sure you get them to send a few bottles your way if you opt to sell it back to them.

The person writing me the email goes on to say that his employer has owned and operated the domain with a site for many many years and is trying to figure out how ownership has passed to me. He is asking if I can answer this question for him.

So tell him - every two years they need to pay a renewal fee if they don't, it's a free for all.

Once they understand how, they will realise it was their fault.

So my question is; should I respond? or...?

Sure why not. You've done nothing wrong (as long as the term isn't trademarked).

How do you feel I should approach this situation?

Be nice. They will no doubt be upset. Look to find a win win situation.

I personally hate it when it happens, because I feel bad for them, and inevitably feel obliged to sell it back given they might have put a lot of time into the site previously as long as they are semi-reasonable about it and I haven't developed it yet.

I normally sell the domain back at mate's rates ie if I bought on the drops for $100, and I think it's real value worth $2000. I'll sell it to them for $500 and I tell them I won't be as generous next time.



If you are really not keen on selling it back to them (I know sometimes I rather not sell it back because I've already invested too much in development) I just say I'm sorry I have already invested too much into this domain to sell it back for a price you want to buy it at and then I just give them some advice on alternative domains they might register (maybe even help them finding a better keyword rich domain ) and what they can do to avoid this problem in the future, ie make sure emails only go to an email that will always be received (business owner).

Some will be grateful that you at least sold it back, some will think you are blackmailing them, but it's best to be ready to deal with some who thinks you are evil.

The situation used to be a lot worse back in the 6 month rule days where you'd have a business owner come back to you check book in hand realising they have boned up and you'd be like, mate I couldn't sell it back to you even if I wanted to (a lot of business people don't like the idea of being told "no" especially when you have just registered their former website domains) which basically forced them to go get a new domain, which sucked for everyone (thumbs up to AUDA for the change).

 

[Blue Wren]

Great help. Thank you everyone.

 

[Blue Wren]

I did as suggestions (thank you all), and within 5 minutes I received a reply.

Any suggestions members?

Thank you again.


---------------------------------------------------------
Hi

Thanks so much for getting back to me and thanks for letting me know about this

I’m not entirely sure how this could’ve happened (One can only imagine that our subscription to that domain has lapsed)

Just a question for you; Is the www.XXXXXXXXXXX.com.au web address hugely important to you? I only ask as it’s obviously the name of our brand that we sell/distribute internationally and market through that website. You will probably be familiar with XXXXXXXXXX as it has been around since 19XX and it has had that web address for around 10 years – so as you can imagine it’s a crucial part of our branding

Is there anyway we could look to do something about this???

Your understanding is very much appreciated

----------------------------------------------------------

 

[DavidL]

Great - so as other suggested it was well worth responding.

Personally I would move to the phone now and have a chat. Points to bear in mind are:

1) you've invested time & energy into the site yourself
2) you have every right to own the site as it's entirely generic
3) despite their assertions that it's of the utmost importance, it was down for 30 days before it dropped, then it's a further what? 20 days since you've had it (I'm assuming by earlier this month, you actually mean Sept). So no website or email for 50 dsays before they noticed... how critical can it really be

Saying all that, it comes down to whether their needs are greater than yours or not. If so, sell it to them.

And Chris' suggestion about the wine, I wouldn't discount (if you like wine!). Their wholesale cost might be $200 on $600 RRP of wine. So maybe instead of $400 cash, they give you the wine. Costs them $200 real, you get $600 real in exchange.

 

[snoopy]

Would definitely contact them, probably a good opportunity for a profit.

 

[brettf]

A 'fermented grape' - I'd be saying look, send me a couple of cases of your best and we'll call it all square.

 

[findtim]

i think it was a GREAT response from them, i was surprised !!, they have put their hand out to you and i think its the best end situation, if you do you will get it back from the universe ( not to go to byron bay on you) .

think whats fair for you, i like the wine deal ( xmas presents solved ) , pick up the phone and make a deal but don't sell yourself short as someone else who is not as concerned about the right thing to do could have grabbed it, and let them KNOW that.

its a phone call, not email banter, maybe say "ok its a deal + i'd like to build and host the website for you on a 5 year contract at a reasonable price, after 5 years you can do what you like " , suggest maybe you are a better person to manage their online strategies?

tim

---------------
story:

2 years ago i hand registered a domain only to find out one of my best clients ( graham) BEST MATE (max) wanted it, what do i do? i picked up the phone and talked to the best mate and said " as you are grahams best mate you can have it " , 6 months later max rings me and says he needs a website, actually he needed 6 websites ! , 2 years down the track ( and an ongoign relationship) i get a phone call last week, they have bought another business and need another website, who did they call? ME. did they ask me for a quote first NO, just go do it tim.

also i have had 3 referals from them which led to website jobs.

you just don't know whats going to come from any conversation.

tim

 

[Blue Wren]

To fill you in on what has been happening since the last post earlier today...

I phoned the other party. He was surprised to receive my call but knew exactly who I was when I mentioned my name.
He was very gracious and accommodating to me and my circumstance regarding this situation. We both traded complements and danced on egg shells (so-to-speak) for about 10 minutes.

He wanted me to be comfortable and I wanted him to be as well. He was suggesting an alternative domain to register for either myself or him, (depending on which way the coin fell). After some more friendly banter from both of us, he told me of his company's time and investment into the domain and website. He also said that the name of the product is heavily promoted outside of Australia and the domain is relied upon by international clients. (He mentions that a Canadian client was the first to alert them of their [former] website being down/changed).

Before I continue I must say that I'm not in this to black - mail this company to pony up or else. I'm not like that.

I expressed to him that based on what he told me (10 years of promotion and a long standing product branding that dates back many many years and I can understand this from a business point-of-view), I'd let them have the domain. I also said that there would need to be some sort of compensation to cover my site development, and associated costs, etc.

We agree that this is acceptable and over the weekend I'm to draft my package and email it to him for approval.

For the record, I genuinely did not know about this domain having it's history until after I purchased the domain name. (I did after purchase as I hit archive.org and was educated; I usually do this before a purchase, but when the domain was available to buy, I was thinking about my youth spent at this location. I had a heart-attachment to the domain; I registered it ASAP.

Any ideas on what an fair hourly rate to make a community-based website would be?
I need to come up with something.

In addition I'll ask for some fermented grape juice too.

Thanks again DNTrade members.

 

[findtim]

well done, you are on the right track but without selling what you have done how can we advise you?

as for time ? if you have started something then you surely would have spent $2k on it in time !

they of course won't see that benefit, effort, so its a hard call.

i don't think i have been in this situation exactly but if i was to put myself now into it i would think to myself " can i reuse what i have done so far on another domain? whats the value of what i am losing and having to start another domain eg: dubbo.com.au vs dubboportal.com.au ! its a BIG difference

tim

 

[Blue Wren]

well done, you are on the right track but without selling what you have done how can we advise you?

as for time ? if you have started something then you surely would have spent $2k on it in time !

they of course won't see that benefit, effort, so its a hard call.

i don't think i have been in this situation exactly but if i was to put myself now into it i would think to myself " can i reuse what i have done so far on another domain? whats the value of what i am losing and having to start another domain eg: dubbo.com.au vs dubboportal.com.au ! its a BIG difference

tim

Thanks Tim. Your comments are appreciated.

 

[Chris.C]

Well given that you hang regged it after it expired, and it sounds like it doesn't have much commercial value as a stand alone website, I'd be asking for a max of mid $XXX.

Just my two cents.

 

[Chris.C]

Well given that you hang regged it after it expired, and it sounds like it doesn't have much commercial value as a stand alone website, I'd be asking for a max of mid $XXX.

Just my two cents.