Adding Buy It Now prices to a running auction

[AnthonyP]

I mentioned in another thread that I would run some ideas past the community with relation to adding BIN prices to a running auction.

Lets keep this conversation focused on the future and let the other thread focus on the past.

I also like to focus this thread on making sure that all interested parties are made aware of BIN prices at the same time (or as close as possible).

One possibilities is that when adding a BIN to a domain which is already loaded I can add an email alert to go to anyone who has already placed a bid on the domain name, this will ensure all involved parties will have an equal opportunity to read the email and become aware of the change simultaneously.

This change would apply to all auctions so I'd also be adding the option for a seller to add a BIN price after a lot is loaded and it would trigger the same alert. Does anyone envisage themselves wanting to do this as a seller?

I'd only allow a BIN to be added once for a domain and I would also not allow it to be changed.

Do you think we need to limit the hours in which this change is allowed? How do you imagine it will impact users in Perth or even in Brisbane when running on different business hours?

Would SMS alerts be more suitable in an instance like this? Would SMS alerts for when one is outbid also be of interest?

 

[Shane]

I don't know about others, but I look at the Netfleet alert email as soon as it arrives each afternoon. If there's something I'm interested in I'll put it in my calendar for ten minutes before the auction end time.

What worries me with Netfleet's plan is that I see a domain in the afternoon that I'm willing to spend serious money on, and then when I check the next day it's already gone - possibly for less than I was willing to spend.

The email or SMS notification will be no good to me in this case as I (and most others) have no intention of bidding until the last few minutes.

For this plan to work I believe there would need to be a specific time that all BIN prices are released.

We all know the auctions end at 1pm AEST, so make it that if a BIN is going to be set it will be updated at precisely 10am AEST (for example) each day.

That way we can set our calendars for 10am AEST the next day and make sure we're all there to see the BIN (if set) for each domain at the same time.

This way no one would be disadvantaged and the process would be far more transparent.

The alternative is that we all have to place an early bid on the domains we're interested in. This may be great for Netfleet, but definitely not good for the rest of us.

As long as the process is fair and transparent for all, that's the main thing.

Shane.

 

[snoopy]

"Adding Buy It Now prices to a running auction"

Its a very bad idea, that should be pretty clear from the other thread.

 

[aus11]

I think that an auction should either have a Buy it Now option at the start, or never. Anything else is just asking for trouble in my opinion.

 

[Data Glasses]

"Adding Buy It Now prices to a running auction"

Its a very bad idea, that should be pretty clear from the other thread.

Agreed

 

[acheeva]

I think that an auction should either have a Buy it Now option at the start, or never. Anything else is just asking for trouble in my opinion.

Agreed

 

[snoopy]

I think that an auction should either have a Buy it Now option at the start, or never. Anything else is just asking for trouble in my opinion.

Well said, no other venue has chopping and changing in the middle of bidding like this. The only similar thing I can thing of was Pool's strategy of a few years ago, where they tried to mix in auctions with offers. That went down in flames.

Netfleet needs to make a choice one way or the other, an auction can't change to a private sale mid stream depending on how netfleet feels about the bidding.

The sole purpose of stuff like this is to try and get one buyer to pay over the odds, ie an auction with 1 (or many) weak bidders and 1 strong bidder (eg enduser) it makes economic sense to convert it to a private sale and try to get way above what the weak bidder would pay (instead of just $1 more like a normal auction). However in the real world people won't stand for that. It will just result in people lowering bids or not bidding because they know it is no longer a transparent process.

Netfleet would no doubt know auctions sometimes finish well under the highest proxy bid (eg bidder A has a proxy of $200, bidder B $2000), but that is life, it is how auctions work, $201 is the final price. The difference just isn't money that the auction house has access to, no matter what plan they try and think up.

 

[findtim]

"agreed" , all good posts guys but please have more to say on the matter that anthony is suggesting.
here is my rant, move on if you don't have time.
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I think anthony you can already see this thread is "in the future" and not running well for you from a domainers point of view

disclaimer: i'm don't class myself as a domainer but a dev but what you are suggesting affects me equally.

disclaimer: i am a buyer not a seller, so i am going to by pass the seller/AMA related comments in the opening post.

with ALL due respect i think you are very clever and very approachable but i think you are heading down the wrong path.

you have always been good to me in our transactions and problem solving, you are very good at what you do so thus i just do not understand why you are proposing this?

basically i see it as an "anti-sniping formula" and not benefiting anyone except your "newbie" clients, as YOU have always said "put your best bid in" which we ALL DO but we just choose to do it at a time we want to, my "wedding invitations" was a typical example when your system failed, but geez did i want anyone to know i was in the game? NOOOOOOOO, i had a good bid and didn't want to drive the price up.
the hugely popular "theblock" tv show had snipers, why are you trying to change the fact that its been happening FOREVER !

i rang my cousin who is a VERYYYYYYYY successful real estate agent today as i just wanted to make sure i wasn't being totally stupid and told him your concept and he said " is the guy crazy "?

putting your best proxy in early will always increase the price we pay which is obviously what you want and fair call, BUT having to basically bid at 3pm the previous day or 10 am as suggested by shane ( which i agree with most of your statements shane ) in order to be notified of a "BIN" being applied is silly. this suggests that we sit infront of our computers 24/7 ( yes i may but many don't), SMS is still not the answer as we have to show our "hands" to get the SMS.

we are business people, we have meetings, we turn our phones off, we have a life, sometimes i go through the list at 3pm, sometimes midnight, if i am interested then i schedule my time for 1pm, if i can't then i will proxy (rarely if ever).
you don't play scrabble with all your letters showing !

so there are soooo many questions/scenarios here: ( no insult to you but you asked for feedback )

1) i put in an 3pm the day before proxy of $8k as i know i can't bid the next day and you can see that bid can't you ? do i get beaten by your "retail" clients inside knowledge?
2) or do you do an early proxy of $4k buy now because you see action on the domain ( and you can't see my proxy? ) and thats what i pay? when if it went to 1 pm auction i might have got it for $2k ? i say this as i have bid that high ( sniped ) and won at $1k.
3) wouldn't that be the same as sniping? the way i'm thinking is you don't want sniping BECAUSE you do retail telemarketing and get peeved off when a domainer comes in and puts in a higher bid in the last minute, well with your new "add a BIN anytime system" i feel you are trying to give an advantage to your "retail" clients"
4) do you stop ringing "retail" clients as you think you can't do better then my $8k proxy? but we need to be clear if you can se our proxy's or not.
5) your new way is you get to know ALL the players in the game EARLY because if they aren't then their is no notification, and then you get to pick which drops are best to target your telemarketing to? "lets forget about targeting perth realestate agents guys as that proxy is to high, lets move onto canberraweddingreceptions." which basically then just disadvantages some other domainer.
6) these aren't all my ideas, phone calls and emails today have made me say i am going to "take the hit" on this one, i just can't see it working fairly.
7) what you guys need to do is SIMPLE, if you are going to telemarket newbie retails into the game then tell them they CAN LOOSE in the final minute and they should bid their HIGHEST $$$ they want, geezz you have been telling us that over and over again, that was the only sentence i DIDN'T hear on friday night in sydney, none of you said it.
8)i remember AND have on email from NF that i lost out on a drop domain by something like .34 of a second because both the person who won and I bid the same price at almost the sametime, i'm sure NF could view my reply email response which basically went "ohh well, ok,no worries, thanks" , i got out sniped........ good on them.
9) if i heard on friday "we hate snipers" once i heard it 30 times !!! if this is your agenda then state it publically.
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i'll stop now, i just had to ask these questions and its just honest feedback from me and many i have talked to.

YES, they can speak for themselves but many don't want to, i have only mentioned problems that i will stand by as my views as well.

anythony rethink this idea clearly before implementing.

tim

 

[Shane]

Tim raises a good point about Netfleet being able to see our proxy bids.

If for whatever reason (meetings, running a business etc) we have to place an early proxy, and Netfleet can see that proxy when calculating their BIN, that would obviously be a very bad thing.

I should add that I buy domains as more of an end-user than a domainer these days. Whilst this means I'm not exactly a regular customer on the expired auctions, it does mean that if a relevant name comes up I will spend serious money to get it. Therefore I'm potentially more at risk from the issues raised in this thread.

 

[AnthonyP]

Thanks for your feedback, for the most part this is pretty constructive.

Ebay auctions allow you to add a buy now to a running auction so this is not unheard of. Apparently they allow a BIN to be added at any time if there are no bids yet. Thoughts?

We have a set end time for the auctions which makes this unlike any "going going gone" auction. Apparently one solution is to have a sealed/blind auction where you only get to bid once but that sounds really boring to me.

Obviously feedback from actual clients is more valuable to me, so feel free to chime in.

 

[davids]

If you have it so you only set BINs to domains with no bids/proxies/etc already on them, I don't see an issue... but I'd say it's fairly shady practice to add a BIN mid-way through an auction where, as Tim has also pointed out, you have access to all of the bidding and proxy data.

 

[findtim]

Tim has also pointed out, you have access to all of the bidding and proxy data.

clarity: i didn't say that, i actually asked the question as i don't know.

tim

 

[snoopy]

Ebay auctions allow you to add a buy now to a running auction so this is not unheard of. Apparently they allow a BIN to be added at any time if there are no bids yet. Thoughts?

That is nothing like what you are proposing/have started doing,

"One possibilities is that when adding a BIN to a domain which is already loaded I can add an email alert to go to anyone who has already placed a bid on the domain name"

We have a set end time for the auctions which makes this unlike any "going going gone" auction. Apparently one solution is to have a sealed/blind auction where you only get to bid once but that sounds really boring to me.

Can I ask this. If that is one "solution" can you tell us what the "problem" is you are trying to solve?

 

[davids]

clarity: i didn't say that, i actually asked the question as i don't know.

tim

Sorry, Tim, I misread what you said !

They most definitely have access to all of that data though, so I guess I've answered the question for you! The programming behind it all relies on it, and being that they are behind the code, they are also behind the database with access to that information.

 

[findtim]

They most definitely have access to all of that data though, so I guess I've answered the question for you!

all cool davids.

this proxy knowledge combined with the BIN strategy for a drop ( not an AMA ) has the potential to go pear shaped again.

tim

 

[Designer]

@AnthonyP - the KISS formula seems to work well. Why change?

 

[Oz.]

Re: Expired domain auctions...
Prefer for them to be kept as is in regards to the actual auction format, and don't like the idea for BINs in drop auctions, especially for domains that already have bids, bad idea IMHO.

Personally I think they are pretty much perfect as is, if it ain't broke...'

AND with fewer and fewer prime domains dropping I think time would be better spent on the AMA, especially comparing the quality of the domains on the AMA vs the expired domain list. AMA is where the future is, IMHO.

The AMA auctions on the other hand could do with some major improvements, most have been discussed in previous threads.

Post 666 - hopefully it isn't too evil?

 

[m8e]

Adding a BIN to a running drop auction seems terribly unfair, considering Netfleet can see the upper price of the proxies.

The reason for this discussion is Netfleet seeing the difference between final winning bid prices and the winners upper proxy bid price (which in some cases must be a significant difference) and trying to figure out plausible ways to reap more profits by eliminating the gap between final actual price and upper potential proxy bid.

 

[Data Glasses]

There was a saying 'sedo are like the government ...we need them' but boy oh boy the hate behind that comment was obvious ....sadly here we go again