hosting clients sites

[findtim]

warning: this is just my opinion, my lesson to myself which i should have paid attention to LAST time.

SO, i get this new client last week and wants a small website ..... 5 pages, all cool no worries, and i say "you must host with me" he says no i want to host with my ISP, so i go "ok" thinking no big deal, small website and move on.

WELL, i do the website on my servers and finish and then want to upload it to his ISP hosting but for the life on ME i couldn't work out how the F to do it, thier system is "parallel" and i work in "cpanel", well i phone the help line and after 27 mins on hold i jsut got cut off ! , so i phoned back, meanwhile i am in his admin panel and noting is making sense to me, after another 27 minutes a message says " this section is only avaialable m-f 9-5 !! so i ahve to wait to monday, then i phone back and am on hold for another 30mins and finally get a person, NOW, he was good and sorted it out but F ME this was a small job and i wasted sooooo much time on it that i rang the client on the other line whilst on hold and said "i'm sorry but you must host with me otherwise i will charge you for every minute i am on hold in the future with this ISP, this issue is free as i said i would do it but from now on its not"

he just said " tim just get it done i'll host with you "

the site was up in the next 3 minutes on my servers.

THE reason for this story is i have TOLD myself a million times " tim, do not do this, do not let the client rule the beast, be strong and say NO.... you host with me or no go, OR i charge you a LARGE fee to go through this bullshit for you. a GREAT example is when someone goes and registers a domain name from some bullshit foreign cheap registra, they get it for $20 but i spend $80 of my time just trying to get the thing redelegated !!!

i think i'm detailing what alot of you are already thinking but i just had to say it, i just got suckkered in for the LAST time, the END, no, nadda, nomore, zip, gone, f-off, not-doing-it, fees-apply, its-gonna-cost-ya, etc

i can't remember the hosting company ? something like eye eye net ? not sure !

tim

 

[johno69]

Tip: when a client wants to use their hosting, look at it before racing off and developing for a different platform.

 

[payattention]

Tip: when a client wants to use their hosting, look at it before racing off and developing for a different platform.

+1

 

[djuqa]

+1 also

Often when faced with same problem, I have found cheaper / quicker / less hassles to spot the client New hosting (and alter final total price) then TRY / FAIL / RIP Hair out procedure using their "It was only $5 a year from Poppadummy Hosting "

I had a client once that Insisted that he knew (because his Brother-in-law said so) that it would work when he wanted to use his 5mb (no mySQLdb/php support) Telstra supplied personal webspace for his 500MB mySQL/PHP database driven multipage eCommerce site.

 

[helloworld]

"I've attached the website for you, cheers"

On a serious note this happened to me today/yesterday. Client wants website, I say $3500, he says "sweet, but I needed it hosted with my host, contact them" alarm bells start ringing but I proceed as no big thing.

I call his host. It's a Effin windows server with no php or mysql installed. I tell host that client will need to host with me and to give me MX records.

Host won't give me MX records and is being a complete dick. Actually losing my shit over it just thinking about it again.

 

[findtim]

funnily i have mostly found the hosting companies friendly.... mostly !

i generally tee the client up to what i am doing and say " if you get an email forward it to me" as the host will always send an email to what ever is listed.

get all the passwords etc and just match the price of the present host. when you get all the passwords for the domain then change all the admin etc to your email address and THEN ring the host.

stop reading now if you don't want a longggg story.

-----------------------

client comes to me last year, tim my website is crap the guy who did it is a druggy and never answers my calls, i think he's now on a boat somewhere int he south pacific and i don't have any passwords ! what can you do.

SO i find out its with a large registra in oz that i won't mention, and i ring them but get a foreign speaking girl which is making it difficult and tell her that we need the passwords, everythign points to the druggies email addresses, i say " the domain is MYBUSINESS.com.au and we are the registered business of MYBUSINESS and Paul is standing next to me so please email the password to paul@MYBUSINESS.com.au" . And she said no, she could only send it to druggy@oftheplanet.com.au because that was what was on the admin. I said BUT the ABN is for MYBUSINESS so bloody do it, still no. i then ask for her supervisor and she wouldn't put me through !!! so i said QUOTE " OK, lets start again, forget everything i just said, now here is the request...... the owner of this domain needs the passwords and the person who has them is DEAD, now whats your answer ? "

she put me on hold, came back 3 minutes later and said if you can fax us a letterhead with the request and a signature and ABN then we will send the info to that address !

bugger me the email address was a domain address ! how hard was that !

ON a different note someone asked me the other day that they could only give me the information i neded if i faxed them on my letterhead a signed request to which i replied " fax ! whats a fax " the person honestly believed me that i didn't know what a fax was and proceeded to explain it to me LOL, i then said " ohhh, i think i remember them, na don't have a fax but that doesn't matter because i don't have a letterhead" which they said " welll every business has a letterhead" and i said " umm, have you heard of email? "

they then conceeded and sent me the info via email.

tim

 

[helloworld]

I've had similar deal with that, tim. I just noted the auda policy that normally jdoes the trick but a pain in the a-hole.

 

[Joel]

And she said no, she could only send it to druggy@oftheplanet.com.au because that was what was on the admin. I said BUT the ABN is for MYBUSINESS so bloody do it, still no. i then ask for her supervisor and she wouldn't put me through !!! "

Sounds like she was only following auDA policy whereby the registrant email is the only one domain passwords should be sent to.

bugger me the email address was a domain address ! how hard was that !

That's irrelevant. Suppose any employee who works for a company contacts them on the sly and obtains control of the domain simply because they have an email address at the domain in question. The registrant email address is in place for a reason and that's for the protection of your domain.

Hope that helps

 

[marketingweb]

On the origional situation, i've learnt some very hard lessons lately on this same topic, and about to put in a new rule based on this. Up to now i've been lucky, but in the last 6 weeks i've had the following. Hopefully someone gets a laugh out of this.

1) TWO separate clients who had never had a website, and who barely knew what a domain was, but had registered for a "custom email service" or whatnot through telstra - who had then registered a domain on their behalf just for email. Interestingly both clients had given up on the Telstra service because it didn't work. Anyone else who has tried to either use Telstra's domain hosting system has my full sympathy, the story is too long and painful to write - basically email system cancelled, domain active, but Telstra won't talk to you because you guessed it - not an active client. And to top it off, one of the two had a been registered with a misspelled registrant email by Telstra, which made things worse!

2) Another long term client, also domain through Telstra, who insists they have to stick with Telstra because they are scared of messing up their emails in the change. I need to move their site from one server to another - so need to update domain records. It's not automatic with Telstra - needs to be manually changed (and insists on a single IP not nameservers). Requested a month ago - still not done. Ring them. They wont talk to me - only talk to the client. Client barely knows how to use a computer. GRRRR.

3) A new client who has existing rubbish website, wants new one. Domain is .org Registered through Godaddy, with the registrant, admin, tech contacts and domain owner as the previous web developer. Previous developer told of move, turns off site. Previous developer paid more money by client, turns on site. Says they can't change the info to client's own contact details, never heard of EPP / Auth code, plays dumb - client told to deal with registrar. Client frustrated with Godaddy over letterhead/fax stuff, picks some random registrar and says they will get them to register it. I say doesn't work like that, you need code from Godaddy, etc, plus much better to register through me not random registrar. Client thinks i'm trying to screw them like previous developer did, and doesn't believe me. Still not resolved. Client frustrated. Me Frustrated.

4) Redesign of existing site. Domains AND hosting registered through smartyhost (MYOB). I log into strange system - nothing works. The realise only .com is showing, not .com.au where the data is. Call them. Apparently .com.au is in a different account - one account per domain in their system. Ok I say, can you send the password to client's email. Doesn't come through. Call them. They tell me it's a DIFFERENT email (one domain per account / one account per email address). Will send an email to account holder, but can't tell me which email address it would be - apparently thats a privacy breach (give me a break). Client wracks brains, can't think of any other email - they have only ever had one. Few days later - client's son who was overseas forwards through email - apparently some time ago his was used to fulfil the "one domain per email" thing.

And THAT's on top of a client a couple months ago who insisted i host the 90% complete, HTML/PHP based site on a windows server - fun and games!

SO - After my long whinge, any ideas from other developers/designers of how to approach the "You need to pay an extra $100-$500 to cover my time, because your domain/hosting setup is balls" question?

 

[findtim]

marketingweb: and thats why i get sooooo much business from referals, people calling me saying " i'm in shit and john reccommended you to fix it"

as for the " now ya gotta pay me an extra $100-500 for my time" well you are mostly screwed, best to say it up front.

as i said when i started this post " i should bloody take my own advice"

one advice to me from me is: thsi is the cost if you let me do it, if you dont then i charge $XXX per hour of my time, this may mean only $15 as i charge by the minute, BUT it could also be a lot more .

I have always had new clients that come and say they want a domain name and website.... how much, well the first thing i say is domains are $88, basic hosting is $132p/a , then they say "but i can register a domain through blabla.com for $5 , and i then say yes you can, i'll give you the delegation details and you can go do it" they then say " ohhhh how do i do that" and i say " thats why you should let me do it for you " , some then say " ok, i'll register the domain and then get you to delegate it or whatever that thing is you said" and i say "COOL, my fee to do that is $88 but it could be more if you don't give me the EXACT information i need "

they usually get pissed offf at this stage, but the reality is ... it cost me moreeee time to fix the cheap domain regos then it does just to do it myself the way i do it, NOBODY phone a solicitor and asks them these sorts of questions and does not expect a bill.

so my story is " you have to start right from the start and set the ground rules" i am guilty of not taking my own advice but i will try try try do do better in the future.

tim

 

[marketingweb]

Good stuff Tim,

Wasn't suggesting I can do much about it now for the existing clients, more learning my lesson for next time - never been badly caught before, then have a raft of them in a row so need to create a policy on it!

What do you say to clients who host existing sites elsewhere OR who have a domain registered already? Do you suggest $88 to do the updates to DNS etc in cases where they aren't looking to reg a new domain?

 

[findtim]

Good stuff Tim,

What do you say to clients who host existing sites elsewhere OR who have a domain registered already? Do you suggest $88 to do the updates to DNS etc in cases where they aren't looking to reg a new domain?

generally in this case its a complete website redo, i HATE touching other peoples code, ESPECIALLY if they rank well because they will blame you if they loose rank and expect you to work on it until its back up there EVEN though the lost rank may have nothing to do with your alterations.

So far nobody has lost any rank, they always gain, i think its because wordpress code is very google friendly.

There are a lot of websites out their that just need to be thrown away.

So most times i leave their website alone, build the new one on my servers eg: http://182.123.22.67/~newsite , and the client can be part of the progression, then i simply redelgate the domain to my servers when complete, as i'm getting paid for a redo i don't charge anything for dns changes, after the dust is settled I transfer their domain name into my system and when its due they will get my bill. If they use to pay $30 for a domain then i just match it and tell them if they don't have me move it to my system then they are on their own so if they let it go unrenewed and phone me then i will charge to fix the problem"

tim

 

[marketingweb]

generally in this case its a complete website redo, i HATE touching other peoples code, ESPECIALLY if they rank well because they will blame you if they loose rank and expect you to work on it until its back up there EVEN though the lost rank may have nothing to do with your alterations.

So far nobody has lost any rank, they always gain, i think its because wordpress code is very google friendly.

There are a lot of websites out their that just need to be thrown away.

So most times i leave their website alone, build the new one on my servers eg: http://182.123.22.67/~newsite , and the client can be part of the progression, then i simply redelgate the domain to my servers when complete, as i'm getting paid for a redo i don't charge anything for dns changes, after the dust is settled I transfer their domain name into my system and when its due they will get my bill. If they use to pay $30 for a domain then i just match it and tell them if they don't have me move it to my system then they are on their own so if they let it go unrenewed and phone me then i will charge to fix the problem"

tim

Thats pretty much what I do, however it's the "redelgate the domain to my servers" that's the pain, especially if it's Telstra which i'm coming across a lot for some reason - ever tried to redelegate a domain registered with telstra (without losing client email account still trhough Telstra)? If not, good luck the first time you try! Same goes for Melbourne IT or Webcentral.

 

[findtim]

yes, its hell, and THAT IS why we need to charge for the service ! because they can't do it and you spend the time doing it.

take the high ground !

calmly say to the client " well john, you have yourself in a pill of S^&T and its going to take me some time to sort it out, i do have to tell you its telstras fault so you have 2 options:

seeing that you are already PAYING telstra how about you ring telstra and here are the details they need to setup

username= tim@dummy.com.au
password= 2222
pop3 = dummy.com.au
smtp= yourISP

so please phone them and get it sorted. ohhhh, and while you are there MAKE sure they help you setup your outlook2003 so you get the emails, and make sure that you test it before you hang up.

NOW, if you want me to do it then i am going to have to charge you for my time.

----------------------------

telstra: if its JUST a telstra email ( not a domain email held with telstra ) OK: i tell the client STRAIGHT UP....

" you need to move your email from dummy@telstra.com.au , they give you the email address because you put it on your business card, your brochures, your yellowpages etccccccc BECAUSE you can then never leave ! , if optus come to you tommorrow and can save you $100 a month YOU CAN"T LEAVE !!!

Now you own your domain, if you do what i say then you will be FREE to do what you want, sad news is it will take maybe 2 years and GUESS what for every day you do not do what i say it will still take 2 years from that date !!!

SO START NOW, i tell them " sorry but you will have to stay with telstra for the next 2 years, end of story, but start now and tell all your contacts via BCC ........... NOT give everyone EVRYONE elses email address via the "TO" column, that you have changed email address to john@mydomain.com.au then you will fast track the process.

I do not TRY to F with telstra, its just not worth it, tell them "you have made a common mistake and this is how we fix it "

if they don't want to then i tell them about "onetel" , overnight a million businesses lost their email address FOREVER, now thats never going to happen to bigpond BUT you will always own your domain name even if i die so what is better? NOW, if their email addres is tpg, iinet, dodo, then it REALLY scares the shit out of them!

tim

 

[marketingweb]

@telstra or @bigpond email adderesses don't worry me as such.
But recently Telstra has been selling business packages that include an email address like john@johnsbusiness.com.au

Then people want a website built - i go to register - but already registered and shows up as webcentral. They say, "no i never registered a domain because I never had a website before" - then you work out it's Telstra. Telstra is registering domains for people for the purposes of email addresses without them 'getting it'. People don't understand domains, they just think it's a nicer email address system - i've come across it three times now.

 

[findtim]

WOW, that SUCKS, surely the auda would have something to say about that?

thats the kinda thing i'd expect from yellowpages but not telstra

so are you saying that the person gets a website from telstra but then has NO rights to the domain and most times wasn't informed that this was the case?

i think this subject needs a new thread of its own as its now off tangent, marketingweb you started this diversion so how about you create a new thread and post your example

maybe come back and post the new thread link in here for future users.

tim

 

[johno69]

findtim for mod imo.

 

[findtim]

happy where i am thankyou

tim

 

[Blue Wren]

findtim for mod imo.

Why stop there... findtim for PM.

 

[findtim]

Why stop there... findtim for PM.

ha ha
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don't read if you don't like my long stories

just got back from my local supermarket where my local government elect representative was standing there "meeting the people" ( labour) so i took the opp to discuss WHY as an internet business i have to ASK for permission to send people promo but the GOVERMENT gets to send me at election time a bloody STACK full of crap that i didn't opt into?

typical pollie said " yeh yeh no no well well we have to do it"

so i said " why do you have 1 rule for me and 1 rule for you " ( he didn't like that) and then i said " shouldn't i decide if i want your propaganda? as thats the restrictions you place on me" , he said " ummmm , well we need to kep the people informed" i said, " maybe i don't want to be informed and all you are doing is cutting down trees to send out shit that ends up in my recycling bin ............"

he's still not happy and looking for someone PLEASE to interupt our convo, LOL.

its a veryyyyy long story ( if not already ) but in the end i didn't get an answer.

F, why can't a pollie just give an F'n answer, have some balls and stand up!

i'm not talking labour liberal other i'm talking ALL

tim