Hmmm Domain squatting frowned upon or cause for domain drop?

[Timmy]

I've approached someone regarding purchasing a domain, and I got the reply below. It is obvious that after researching the owner that they have no connection/business relevance to the domain, and are obviously just squatting - is this against auda policy?

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hi Tim,

[ABCDOMAIN].com.au with a cash flow positive business is worth millions because a large media company would buy it.

the only way i would part with the domain name is if you had a cash flow positive business, and then it would have to be a partnership deal.

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For starters the guys message doesn't make a lot of sense with the subject matter - but does this constitute squatting? My business has a direct link to the subject matter involved - is there any course of action, or is it just the way of the world and first in best dressed?

Cheers,

Timmah

 

[DavidL]

Well it's usually a subjective matter as to whether a domain is being 'squatted' on. Generally it would be monetised and either identical to a brand name or a typo/variation of it.

If it's a generic name, the registrant can monetise the domain and as long as ads/content relates closely to the subject matter of the generic name, that's OK.

So main question is whether the domain is generic? If it is, you could still complain to auDA that they aren't meeting elligibility criteria and they may approach the registrant for an explanation. However, personally I think this is a bit sneaky if you're only doing it to try & snaffle the domain yourself. We've ALL been guilty of one time or another breaching auDA policy even if it is unknowingly.

Eg if you used WHOIS to get this guy's email so you could approach him, that's a breach of policy. You can't use WHOIS info to make an unsolicited commercial approach.

 

[Timmy]

Oh I wouldn't have done that! Not in a million years! lol

Yeah I figured as much thanks for that info.

 

[Drop.com.au]

Hi Timmy,

Domain Squatting usually relates (as David pointed out) to brand and trade mark infringements. In short is all about the intention behind the registration.

Good Faith example: You register the domain for legitimate commercial reasons, but they never materialized and now you would like to sell the domain. When you originally registered the domain it did not conflict with any existing brands in the market, however a closely related brand has subsequently emerged and you believe they are a natural buyer of the domain.

In my opinion, this is not squatting.

Bad Faith: You see a new brand advertised on US based TV that does not have an Australian presence. So you register the domain waiting for the day they want to expand to Australia.

In my opinion, this is clearly squatting.

Problem is, you how do you prove one versus the other etc...
Collecting unsolicited emails is a good start.

Regarding:

Eg if you used WHOIS to get this guy's email so you could approach him, that's a breach of policy. You can't use WHOIS info to make an unsolicited commercial approach.

Spot on David, this is a breach of the whois policy:
http://www.auda.org.au/policies/auda-2006-06/

But, auDA can't do much to offenders other than take a domain away, publicly cite them for breach, or (and here is the important part), alert The Australian Communications and Media Authority (ACMA.org.au)

Sending unsolicited email is a breach of the SPAM ACT 2003
http://www.acma.gov.au/WEB/STANDARD..PC/pc=PC_310294

ACMA, being Govt (auDA is not Govt) can impose hefty penalties and even jail terms!

So always be careful how you approach customers and especially when soliciting business.

PS: I wish someone would tell that Russian girl who tries to sell me pills every other day, that she can't send unsolicited emails!

Best Regards,
George

 

[Shaun]

Regarding:


Spot on David, this is a breach of the whois policy:
http://www.auda.org.au/policies/auda-2006-06/

But, auDA can't do much to offenders other than take a domain away, publicly cite them for breach, or (and here is the important part), alert The Australian Communications and Media Authority (ACMA.org.au)

Sending unsolicited email is a breach of the SPAM ACT 2003
http://www.acma.gov.au/WEB/STANDARD..PC/pc=PC_310294

ACMA, being Govt (auDA is not Govt) can impose hefty penalties and even jail terms!

So always be careful how you approach customers and especially when soliciting business.


Best Regards,
George

David/George can either of you answer this?

You see a domain you want to buy for your business. You visit the domain. There is no website. Or you visit the website and there are no contact details.

How do you solicit contact details to make an approach?

Do auDa offer a service where they will approach the domain owner to ask if it is ok for them to pass on their details to me? If not, and you cannot use WhoIs then auDa need to provide something, hell they could even charge a fee.

My point being, if there is NO alternative, what is one to do? Walk round the streets asking every individual if they own the domain?

I imagine it's different when it comes to trademarks, Trademark owner would make a complaint to auDa and then auDa would make contact.

 

[Drop.com.au]

Hi Shaun,

I don't think you would be called up if you are trying to buy a domain from someone.

If you are using the whois to collect email addresses and then market domains for sale (or anything for sale), then this is the behavior that the WHOIS policy is trying to address.

If you want to get technical about approaching domain name owners, I think the cleanest approach is to contact the registrar and ask them to assist.

Best Regards,
George Pongas

 

[DavidL]

That's the crazy thing Shaun. To the letter of the law you are stuck however it is extremely unlikely that the domain registrant would complain.

a) they would be unlikely to be acquainted with this part of auDA policy
b) they would probably welcome an offer!

However, not so long ago, we sent an email to someone on our mailing list who, whilst not offended by the content, decided to make a formal complaint to auDA citing this policy... purely for malicious purposes.

However what the dozy guy didn't realise is that we hadn't actually gotten his email address from WHOIS but from somewhere else - he was a Netfleet member! So he sure looked silly when we explained this to auDA...

The good news is that this part of the policy will be up for review soon so we'll all have a chance to make suggestions. I personally believe this part of the policy should be relaxed and leave the policing of unsolicited emails to ACMA.

Also, due to the captcha code restrictions in place, I don't think spammers actively use WHOIS to get emails but other methods like crawling the web for emails etc. I could be wrong on this though?

 

[Shaun]

Thanks George/David

 

[FirstPageResults]

Hi Shaun,
If you want to get technical about approaching domain name owners, I think the cleanest approach is to contact the registrar and ask them to assist.

That's good advice.

I've seen a few instances where offers have been made via the registrar, including one by a member of this forum that resulted in a 10k sale that may not have eventuated without the input/advice given to the registrant by the registrar who was not very savvy.

 

[Rhythm]

FPR, That's interesting. What did the registrar say to the registrant?

"Somebody wants to buy your domain for $10k?

 

[FirstPageResults]

More along the lines of:

registrar: "We've been approached... are you interesting in selling?"

registrant: "Well I am retiring.. how much would it be worth?"

registrar: "I wouldn't be too greedy, 10k seems fair for both parties"

registrant: "wow 10k!"

lol

 

[Rhythm]

lol. Must've been that retirees lucky day.