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Free COR change of registrant

Discussion in 'General Domain Discussion' started by DomainNames, Oct 6, 2011.

  1. DomainNames

    DomainNames Membership: Community

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    http://www.auda.org.au/news-archive/auda-06102011/

    Auda also needs to change policy so COR ( Change of Registrant) in the .com.au space is Free. This can easily be done now. Its been free in .com for years!

    http://www.metahead.com/how-to-push-...dy-domain-name we need this same process here! Its free and fast. Enetica already have this set up and working for years also but Auda makes people do a new 2 year registration.

    If Auda uses the existing domain period left from the old registrant to the new registrant there would be no reason to charge. ( auda makes a fee from every name registered / every COR at the moment so they probably dont want to let people do it free using existing time period left on the domain name)

    Most registrars can already do it without any manual admin needed so they dont need to charge for it if Auda changes the new registration needed part of the COR process .

    Hopefully Auda will go all the way and agree to this much needed change many years overdue and behind the .com process!!
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2011
  2. DomainNames

    DomainNames Membership: Community

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  3. DavidL

    DavidL Membership: VIP

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    auDA Member:
    Yes
    I don't think auDa's motivation is to get a few bucks from the renewals - after all there are only 1,000 or so COR's each month (http://www.ausregistry.com.au/reports/2011/PUBLIC-201108.pdf) so it's not a big deal really.

    The danger of doing it with whatever's left is that a buyer gets a domain only for it to expire shortly afterwards and potentially in all the fuss of the purchase & changing NS etc might actually let it drop by accident.

    What would have been better was if auDA had approved the 1-5 year registration periods and then worked an automatic 1 year renewal into the COR. That, together with a more streamlined online process, could have brought the total fee down to $15 or so. Ah well...
     
  4. DomainNames

    DomainNames Membership: Community

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    Hi, the way is WORKS for .com is if the name is due to expire in 30 days and you do a COR it automatically recognises this and gives you the option to do the cor with a 1, 2 5 10 years fee. Its just a matter of our registrars and AUDA getting up to date with standard practice of .com for the last 10 years. they could do it here very easily and get it set up before November and the new rules come in.

    Once this rule changes there will be a lot more COR's It has been a stupid rule.. just many Auda needed to change.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2011
  5. brettf

    brettf Membership: Community

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    The issue is the way domain licenses are treated in Australia by auDA.

    auDA view a license as a contract between them and the registrant. So conceptually they have a model of non-transferable or assignable licenses. There is probably some arcane legal reason for this, I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know what that is.

    So because the license is not assignable a COR is effectively an end to the contract that exists between auDA and Registrant 1 and creation of a new contract with Registrant 2, so because it's a new license period, it's a brand new registration.

    I suspect that neither auDA nor any panel they form, is going to take the view that it's going to be good for the market to make COR's free.
     
  6. DomainNames

    DomainNames Membership: Community

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    Hi yes Im aware of how they treated registrations years ago as the CEO said there was no way to sell a domain name due to that . But times changed and now they see they where wrong they need to change the COR process totally and get it right finally. There is no legal reason for them to charge a new 2 year period. In fact it might be the opposite that they should not be.

    Hopefully Erhan can look into this in more detail and get it fixed but AUDA and registrars wil fight hard to keep this money earner. Lets have some transparency from AUDA and registrars on why it can and cant be done. Some registrars say it can easily be done if Auda gets rid of the need for the additional new 2 years registration and instead uses the existing period method left on the name.. same as the .com method

    Once again look at the .com system its free for COR and the existing period is used. It works perfectly. Auda needs to finally put some work in with registrars and ausregistry to get this technicality fixed.

    The truth is anyone doing a .com.au, .net.au COR is getting ripped off by having to pay for a new 2 year registration and any additional registrar fees on top. The process can be done electonicaly now by most with no manual human checking done... the same way as when you register a new name now.. no registrars are using humans to do it its all done with software.... oh sorry some old registrars with old processes may be! Obviously you wont find any registrar saying how easy the process is or could be or they will be shooting themselves in the foot.. but whoever gets it right will gain all the COR business which often leads to more customers paying hosting fees etc... just look at how people now recommend drop.com.au and ventraip.com.au here because of their lower fees... still... with some work the COr fees could be lower and even ZERO if the process had some work done on it now in time for Novembers policy change.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2011
  7. DomainNames

    DomainNames Membership: Community

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  8. DomainNames

    DomainNames Membership: Community

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    FREE COR question

    Hi guys, posted this to drop already. can you guys comment from a technical point of view also.

    ______________

    a technical question.. If Auda got rid of the need for a new 2 year registration and allowed the existing domain name period to be used for the COR could you set up a process free the same way godaddy.com or hundreds of other .com registrars do it?

    http://www.dnforum.com/f247/how-bulk...tml#post892428.

    Could you let us know how it could be done and whats stopping it being done exactly by VentraIP. Is it Auda wanting their new registration fee $$, the registrar wanting their $$$ or some legal reason... or do registrars not have the systems set up here yet?

    FREE COR change of registrant works fine for .com names. Do you have the systems set up or could you get your systems set up to allow this to work here if Auda made the policy change to use existing time left on the name?

    FYI to all Enetica has had this Domain PUSH system set up for years so it can be done easily!
    _______________________________

    http://www.nictips.com/Domain-Inform...Explained.html


    Domain Push
    Here we will try to best describe what a domain push is. If a domain is already registered at any registrar it will be unavailable for registration, But this does not mean that a registered domain name cannot be sold and then moved (pushed) to another owner.

    Lets use this example to describe what a push is.

    The domain name www.nictip.com is registered at an Enom reseller Namecheap (This is where we purchased the rights to this domain name "Our Registrar") When you register a domain name you will have to register yourself an account with the registrar. This domain is active in our account at Namecheap. If we wanted to give/sell/trade this domain name with another business or person we would have to communicate with that person and ask them what there account username is at Namecheap. They would then provide us with that account username. We would then follow the steps below.

    Go to our registrars webpage and enter our account username and password

    Locate the domain name we wanted to send to the other person "Nictip.com"

    In our control panel we would see the options and select "Push This Domain To Another Account"

    We would then enter the username of the intended recipient

    We would then be asked for our password for verification

    And then we would execute the "PUSH"

    Once this procedure has been executed we would no longer have control of this domain name. It would then be under the control of the new owner and they could then point the domain to their website or whatever nameservers they desired. Thus in effect a push is best described as relinquishing all rights to a domain name you have control of. Most registrars offer this as a free service but there is some out there that charge for this service. We strongly suggest that you check your registrars policies. All registrars listed on our site offer free internal pushes.
     
  9. brettf

    brettf Membership: Community

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    DomainNames, Mate you're way off base about Registrars, well speaking for a group of 5 or so anyway. COR's are a pain in the ass for us, we need to train staff, need to answer about a billion questions/complaints from Registrants, we either need to allocate resources to a manual process, or invest development time to build automated systems. Even with an automated process some registrants still want to use a manual process as they don't have or don't want to use a credit card.

    There are very few COR's on a monthly basis, the ones we do would represent about 0.000001% of our monthly gross revenue.

    So I'd **much** rather we just went in line with gTLD's where users can update their own Registrant contact. We provide the interface and that's the end of our involvement. I can't imagine there is a Registrar out there thinking they are going to make money out of COR's. Generally a high cost of COR isn't reflective of a cash grab but a deterrent to actually having to do the bloody things.
     
  10. DomainNames

    DomainNames Membership: Community

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    Melbourne IT charges $339 for a COR Change of Registrant. Seems like a cash grab to me!!

    COR's will increase as a result of the new policy so getting the new policy right now is crucial. Also registrars who have been using manual systems will need to get with the times and update their own processes, software etc.

    So its good you agree please PUSH AUDA to make it in line with other gTLD'S so you have less effort also! These technical back end processes need to be sorted now with Auda, Ausregistry and the registrars who have not set up paperless push systems and processes yet .

    Some other .com.au registrars can do it now FREE using the " domain push method" if Auda dropped the need for a new 2 year registration. Their process is not manual any longer. These guys have been smart enough to make their current charge for COR lower than others who may still be doing it " manually"
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2011
  11. FirstPageResults

    FirstPageResults Membership: VIP

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    auDA Member:
    Yes
    I've moved this post to general as pitching the same question in 3 seperate posts isn't going to work.
     
  12. brettf

    brettf Membership: Community

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    In the working group, we looked at a distribution of COR's versus the age of the registration in months. It is pretty obvious that if people were waiting till the end of the 6 month period to do COR's you'd see a spike in the 7th month. There was nothing, which really was the key data to the rule being abolished.

    So personally I don't think the removal of the 6 months is going to see any increase in COR's.

    I have no sway with auDA. Domainers fall into demand class and you should be lobbying the elected representatives you have for that.

    In regards to mandating paperless systems, it's a competitive market. Some registrars charge more some less, some have automated processes and some don't. You can't say (especially while transfers are free - which is a different discussion), that all registrars must have X process in place. It's up to you, use a registrar who has the tools you want and at the price your willing to pay.

    The final things I'd say DomainNames, obviously free COR's are something you are passionate about.

    1) auDA is panel driven. Unless a panel recommends change the auDA board aren't going to look at it. auDA's operational participation would be forming the panel and giving them terms. So you need to be seeking a panel to be formed to review the issue rather than immediate change. Given they just had a secondary market group, I'd say it could be a long shot for some period of time. Just my view, but feel free to get a panel up. If one forms I'm more than happy to support a gTLD type model.

    2) In the broader community from my experience with dealing with a lot of different demand type users of domains, the only group asking for free COR's are domainers. And while I think you are an important and interesting segment you are ultimately a very tiny segment of the overall market.

    General registrants looking to sell a domain for some reason, typically don't see an issue with a charge for that happening. It's a cost of business for them and they are doing one transaction usually. Domainers are a completely different proposition. But don't confuse the needs of domainers as being broad/wider community support.
     
  13. DomainNames

    DomainNames Membership: Community

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    Dont make it hard...COR for .com.au can be FREE ...... it is for .com... no more excuses for .com.au registrars and auda. ... no more working groups are needed!!!!

    your quote 2) In the broader community from my experience with dealing with a lot of different demand type users of domains, the only group asking for free COR's are domainers. And while I think you are an important and interesting segment you are ultimately a very tiny segment of the overall market.

    Brett are you joking saying all the forum domainer members are an Interesting and tiny segment??? wow.... .... its good to see what the truth is... Thank God elections are coming soon for Auda... but it makes people see maybe some bias exists still against the tiny minority of "domainers"

    Maybe you dont realise the biggest " domainers" in Australia are Fairfax Media via www.omg.com.au with 30,000+ .com.au names monetised ?

    Fairfax Media.... OMG is now selling many of their domain names... they are " domainers" ... developers.... monetisers.... and one of the biggest Media companies in Australia!
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2011
  14. brettf

    brettf Membership: Community

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    There's over 2,000,000 domains. 30,000 less than 1.5% of the market.

    If you round up all the domainers portfolios, the entire segment will still be much less than 5% of the total market. So I can't really think of any other way to represent that than a small or tiny segment of the market. I don't know why you'd appear to be offended by that statement, it certainly wasn't meant to be contentious and I also said domainers were an important segment of the market.

    If I didn't think the views of domainers were important, I wouldn't bother participating in this forum. I certainly don't win business out of being here, nor would I attempt to.

    I'm not sure I can add anything more, I've explained what the process is, I've explained in a different post/thread what the implications are of changing the way domain licenses are treated under policy (going to free COR's). You can continue to jump up and down saying I want free COR's right now, but doing that isn't going to get you what you want. Policy change in auDA is something that happens over the course of years, it always has, and in the medium term at least I can't see that changing.
     
  15. DomainNames

    DomainNames Membership: Community

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    Thanks Brett for your opinion.

    What is needed for a Free COR system to work in Australia?
     
  16. Cooper Mills DomainLawyer

    Cooper Mills DomainLawyer Membership: VIP

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    auDA Member:
    Yes

    To implement this Free COR system you would need to (among other things) to amend (the Transfers Policy):

    You need to assign a licence not create a new one, which is what happens now. The domain name licence (Schedule A Mandatory Terms) would need an express reference as well.
     
  17. DomainNames

    DomainNames Membership: Community

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    Yes Erhan yes many here are aware of this old Auda " red tape policy error" .

    It's a policy that needs changing simply to allow existing domain name licence time period to be transferred with ownership.

    There is opposition from some who dont want it changed as they get a financial benefit from the policy the way it is . Currently as it stands this policy allows registrars to charge a higher fee for what could be a FREE COR process. It allows AUDA to get their fee for every new registration...

    It can be changed very easily by Auda if they wish and this would benefit the .au namespace users by further reducing red tape and costs. IT WOULD ALSO HELP REGISTRARS!

    Its a shame Auda board members have not already acted on this issue. But it highlights the need for new Board members and better Auda policies. Many old policies have been changed and its time this COR policy was changed also

    Once the policy is updated registrars can simply set up the " domain push" system which most other countries already have and some .au regstrars already have and use for their .com users!!

    How can this Auda policy be updated so the COR process can be FREE like in the .com space? Is it the board who needs to change it?
    _____________________________________________________


    http://www.nictips.com/Domain-Inform...Explained.html


    Domain Push
    Here we will try to best describe what a domain push is. If a domain is already registered at any registrar it will be unavailable for registration, But this does not mean that a registered domain name cannot be sold and then moved (pushed) to another owner.

    Lets use this example to describe what a push is.

    The domain name www.nictip.com is registered at an Enom reseller Namecheap (This is where we purchased the rights to this domain name "Our Registrar") When you register a domain name you will have to register yourself an account with the registrar. This domain is active in our account at Namecheap. If we wanted to give/sell/trade this domain name with another business or person we would have to communicate with that person and ask them what there account username is at Namecheap. They would then provide us with that account username. We would then follow the steps below.

    Go to our registrars webpage and enter our account username and password

    Locate the domain name we wanted to send to the other person "Nictip.com"

    In our control panel we would see the options and select "Push This Domain To Another Account"

    We would then enter the username of the intended recipient

    We would then be asked for our password for verification

    And then we would execute the "PUSH"

    Once this procedure has been executed we would no longer have control of this domain name. It would then be under the control of the new owner and they could then point the domain to their website or whatever nameservers they desired. Thus in effect a push is best described as relinquishing all rights to a domain name you have control of. Most registrars offer this as a free service but there is some out there that charge for this service. We strongly suggest that you check your registrars policies. All registrars listed on our site offer free internal pushes.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2011
  18. DomainNames

    DomainNames Membership: Community

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  19. brettf

    brettf Membership: Community

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    I don't think you're asking the right question. Free COR's work, there are plenty of places this exists today, there is no reinventing the wheel required. The technical changes, both at the Registry and Registrars, are trivial. All that needs to happen is that the registrant contact needs to becomes an editable contact just like the tech/admin/billing contacts. Same as it works in the gTLD space.

    For this to happen though, other very major policy changes need to happen. You've made it very clear that you don't want panels, however auDA is committed to a community consultation approach to policy. What I would say, is that there will be segments of the community opposed to the policy changes required (again see my earlier post about the perceived security in .au etc). If auDA was to unilaterally make such major shifts in policy without consultation, I'd imagine there would be some very aggrieved stakeholders, even though you'd be happy.

    So really your best bet is to accept any change is only going to occur in the medium to long term, that it's going to be done by way of a panel process, which also involves them getting feedback from the wider community. Finally the board needs to accept those recommendations.

    1) Get involved with the board, either directly as a candidate, or lobby your elected representatives to form a panel to review the broad policy change that is required.

    2) Assuming a panel is formed, get onto the panel. Having been on quite a few panels, I can tell you, that the comments you've made about who wants policy like this are way, way off base. Anyone who's been on a panel (including people in this forum), will tell you the exact same thing.

    3) During the public submission process, again get involved and make reasonable arguments, submit responses. Simply saying it's bad policy and has to go isn't going to win you support, nor is implying Registrars or the Registry or auDA wants to simply profit out of that policy.

    Is all this one big hassle? Absolutely. But if you are passionate about it invest time to achieve a positive outcome.
     
  20. DomainNames

    DomainNames Membership: Community

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    Hi Brett, Can you flat FREE COR for the Policy Review Panel?

    It should be on the PRP suggestions to the auDA Board and with the new 1 year registration starting from 1st July 2018 now is the time to prepare and update policy plus market understanding.

    Yes I know it can be done and I know it can be done if policy is changed.