Drops today - August 2013

[johno69]

I made the functionality public before responding because you all seem so keen to use it.

It's snarly remarks like this that stir it all up Anthony, then you don't like it when people are having digs.

We offer to sell a domain to a client for a fixed price, they agree to the price we capture the price as a fixed bid. Unlike a buy now price you have an opportunity to outbid this client.

The problem here is that the current proxy bids are known to the person making these calls and offers to the clients.

What happens when your offer to the client is beaten by an early proxy by only a few dollars? Are they called and told they need to increase the bid?

Inside info must be nice.

I think this will push people to keep their cards close to their chest longer if nothing else.

 

[AnthonyP]

It's snarly remarks like this that stir it all up Anthony, then you don't like it when people are having digs.

The problem here is that the current proxy bids are known to the person making these calls and offers to the clients.

What happens when your offer to the client is beaten by an early proxy by only a few dollars? Are they called and told they need to increase the bid?

Inside info must be nice.

I think this will push people to keep their cards close to their chest longer if nothing else.

We call them up to 48 hours in advance. We suggest the prices before the domains are even listed. There is no reliance on inside info (in fact it does not even exist yet). There is no call back.

 

[johno69]

We call them up to 48 hours in advance. We suggest the prices before the domains are even listed. There is no reliance on inside info (in fact it does not even exist yet). There is no call back.

Thank you. This is the info people (me) are after.

 

[AnthonyP]

Thank you. This is the info people (me) are after.

No problem. Sorry if I appeared to be hiding anything from you.

 

[johno69]

No problem. Sorry if I appeared to be hiding anything from you.

With your sales staff appearing to be able to achieve prices much higher than the current market values, maybe you could offer that as a service to all

 

[AnthonyP]

With your sales staff appearing to be able to achieve prices much higher than the current market values, maybe you could offer that as a service to all

There is still room for improvement I think.

How about this for an idea, if you have a domain for sale in the domain catalogue and you get a good offer which you would accept but think it is worth more, then instead of accepting the offer how about you let our sales staff call the buyer and get you a bit more. Then you pay a 50% commission for any added value we generate in the sale?

 

[johno69]

Tomorrow i'll need to go the Automatic Teller Machine Machine, and enter my Personal Identification Number Number, to get some cash to bid on Search Engine Optimisation Optimisation & Search Engine Optimization Optimization.

 

[chris]

Things certainly got a little heated today and I've had quite a few messages about this thread so I just wanted to clear up a few things up.

You need to think about the following dntrade rules (and so do the moderators)>
10. NO TROLLING - Please do not post any topic that aims to disrupt the peace and harmony of the forum with the sole purpose of starting a dispute. This includes messages in profiles, signatures and avatars.

12. NO BUMPING - Please do not repeatedly bump your threads (or other members threads) to try and get attention.

Firstly, the admin team do a great job in moderating the forum as best we can (without censoring). It is important that DNTrade always remains impartial, without taking sides. We want to provide the forum for members to discuss things openly and honestly. The rules exist to benefit all members and ensure the forum is an open and inclusive place for everyone. I did jump on today to remind members to keep discussions on track and keep personal attacks out of it.

Yes Ned's posts were direct and resulted in discussions, but we feel he is a passionate domainer who was just looking for answers to his questions (as were other members). Ned is a valued and important contributor on DNTrade and has done a lot for the community. He is entitled to express his opinion and point of view, as are all members.

Unfortunately this thread did start to flare up on the weekend and in all fairness, negative assumptions were being cast on Netfleet before they even had a chance to reply during business hours. This wasn't very fair and we do need to cut each other some slack.

Netfleet do a fantastic job promoting the domain industry in Australia, many of us benefit from this and their great service. Like anyone, they can run their business however they choose. We are fortunate to have them as long standing sponsors of the DNTrade community. They choose to continue to support the community and on top of that they also choose to actively participate in it. This commitment to communication with members shouldn't be taken for granted.

It all comes down to open communication and not jumping to conclusions. Thanks to Anthony for persisting with the replies today after the avalanche of questions. It looks as though we're starting to clear things up on both sides now.

There is still room for improvement I think.

How about this for an idea, if you have a domain for sale in the domain catalogue and you get a good offer which you would accept but think it is worth more, then instead of accepting the offer how about you let our sales staff call the buyer and get you a bit more. Then you pay a 50% commission for any added value we generate in the sale?

I think plenty of people would be interested in this and I think the idea about posting changes on the blog when possible is also great. We'll do our best to share this information here.

Cheers,
Chris

 

[neddy]

We offer to sell a domain to a client for a fixed price, they agree to the price we capture the price as a fixed bid. Unlike a buy now price you have an opportunity to outbid this client.

Ok, thank you for at last answering the question I posed way back on the 4th August in this thread.

And johno69's post on the 5th August.

Why would anyone put a fixed bid in with < 1 min to go so much higher than the current bid amount?

http://www.netfleet.com.au/auction-history/?sid=1035067

Surely you'd go proxy bid right?

That wasn't so hard was it?

I commend you trying new things. But imagine the angst you could have possibly saved had you forewarned your client base and this forum that you indeed had a "new marketing initiative".

You see the big problem is that you had eight other Netfleet customers who were affected (view auction history above).

I note in one of your subsequent comments you say this:

We offer to sell a domain to a client for a fixed price, they agree to the price we capture the price as a fixed bid. Unlike a buy now price you have an opportunity to outbid this client.

My two questions in relation to this are:

1. If you capture this as a fixed bid (and I think somewhere you said you do so 48 hours prior), why do you not place this bid upfront as Bidder Number 1?
   
   
2. Given that Bidder 8 placed a bid of $501 with 1 minute 9 seconds to go; and you placed your fixed bid of $1952 with 11 seconds to go, how would the other 8 bidders
   "have an opportunity to outbid this client"?

I suppose there is a third question here in relation to "would your enduser be happy if he knew that he could have got the domain for $502"? But no need to answer that -
you've explained that you got a fixed price commitment out of them.

My advice (for whatever it is worth):

Next time you have a fixed bid in advance of the drop auction - and you are truly intent on giving other customers a chance to outbid; then place the fixed bid up front.

That way you are being "upfront" with everyone - including your fixed bid client.

Imho.

 

[neddy]

Yes Ned's posts were direct and resulted in discussions, but we feel he is a passionate domainer who was just looking for answers to his questions (as were other members). Ned is a valued and important contributor on DNTrade and has done a lot for the community. He is entitled to express his opinion and point of view, as are all members.

Thank you Chris - as a former webmaster of this forum, it's good to know that I'm not deemed to be a "troll"; and that I and others are entitled to ask questions.

Unfortunately this thread did start to flare up on the weekend and in all fairness, negative assumptions were being cast on Netfleet before they even had a chance to reply during business hours. This wasn't very fair and we do need to cut each other some slack.

I hear what you say, but I guess if NF had answered my post on the 4th August; and johno69's on the 5th August, then it wouldn't have perhaps flared up so much!

Netfleet do a fantastic job promoting the domain industry in Australia, many of us benefit from this and their great service. Like anyone, they can run their business however they choose. We are fortunate to have them as long standing sponsors of the DNTrade community. They choose to continue to support the community and on top of that they also choose to actively participate in it. This commitment to communication with members shouldn't be taken for granted.

It all comes down to open communication and not jumping to conclusions. Thanks to Anthony for persisting with the replies today after the avalanche of questions. It looks as though we're starting to clear things up on both sides now.

Chris, I totally agree with you about Netfleet's immense contribution to the domain industry in Australia.

When I was webmaster here, I commended them many times publicly. I also have done so in person - before and after DNT.

Just recently, Anthony spent over 30 minutes on the phone with me picking my brains and asking for suggestions with regards ongoing initiatives at Netfleet. It was
a most constructive, friendly and positive discussion. I'm sure Anthony would agree!

But I am (and was) never afraid to disagree with them either if I believe they are on the wrong track.

Brickbats and bouquets - without fear or favour. When I passed the baton on to you, I said I never let sponsorships stop me from calling someone out or having
a contrary opinion. Or praising people / sponsors to high heavens when they deserved it.

But that's me. I have always called a spade a spade.

 

[johno69]

If you capture this as a fixed bid (and I think somewhere you said you do so 48 hours prior), why do you not place this bid upfront as Bidder Number 1?

That's an interesting one. The client did really bid 48 hours prior. (it just wasn't placed in the system at that time).

It feels like a bit of a silent auction. All users place their bids, nobody knows each others until after the hammer falls.

I remember winning a signed Geelong AFL football like this $5 well spent.

 

[Bacon Farmer]

The accusation of trolling is pathetic.

The pressure applied to Chris via the sponsorship angle just a bully boy tactic.

The inside information issue has not been cleared up.

The stuff you it's our business attitude is just pure arrogance.

FFS pick up your game guys.

It'd take 5 mins to write a blog entry about the changes your doing or trialling.

We, your customers, want you to thrive so engage us, don't piss us off.

 

[AnthonyP]

I tried to clear up as much as possible yesterday but I cannot spend today doing this again because I am going to be on leave suddenly at some point in the next 2 weeks (having a baby) so I need to focus on some changes required for our September sale.

The sale will involve $19.95 Buyers premium and the return of the $10 first bidders discount. Hopefully this Spring sale will give you all something to smile about especially when combined with the warmer weather.

 

[neddy]

I tried to clear up as much as possible yesterday but I cannot spend today doing this again because I am going to be on leave suddenly at some point in the next 2 weeks (having a baby) so I need to focus on some changes required for our September sale.

The sale will involve $19.95 Buyers premium and the return of the $10 first bidders discount. Hopefully this Spring sale will give you all something to smile about especially when combined with the warmer weather.

I really like the sale idea. Good marketing initiative - and thanks for telling us about that in advance.

If you don't have time to answer my couple of remaining questions (which I think are important), perhaps your Marketing Manager could (Fleur)? Or Mark or David?

And sincere best wishes for the upcoming new arrival.

 

[snoopy]

I said I never let sponsorships stop me from calling someone out or having a contrary opinion.

Personally think this is becoming an ever present issue for this forum.

If threads about legitimate issues end up with comments that are essentially, "Hey don't forget they are a sponsor of this forum", that is a bad scenario in my opinion.

I've seen this kind of thing escalate is the past, good example was the geek/talk forums where the major sponsor essentially ended up calling the shots, becoming immune from genuine criticism, administrators would side with them despite the sponsors dubious behaviour. That is how it can end up when sponsorship starts to factor in moderation decisions.

You can see how that once strong is going today,

http://www.geekvillage.com/forums/

"Currently Active Users: 49 (0 members and 49 guests)"

All the members gradually left.

 

[AnthonyP]

I really like the sale idea. Good marketing initiative - and thanks for telling us about that in advance.

If you don't have time to answer my couple of remaining questions (which I think are important), perhaps your Marketing Manager could (Fleur)? Or Mark or David?

And sincere best wishes for the upcoming new arrival.

Thanks Ned, not sure if it is a boy or a girl this time but since I already have one of each we thought we would just have a surprise this time.

David does not work with Netfleet at all and I think has left the forum too. Mark will be back at the helm as soon as I am on leave officially but at the moment is working on other projects.

The basic answer to your question about how to outbid the fixed bid is for you to do what you normally do, bid what you are willing to pay in the final seconds and if your proxy is higher than the fixed bid you will be the winner.

 

[neddy]

The basic answer to your question about how to outbid the fixed bid is for you to do what you normally do, bid what you are willing to pay in the final seconds and if your proxy is higher than the fixed bid you will be the winner.

Sorry to be a dog with a bone Anthony, but my questions were:

1. If you capture this as a fixed bid (and I think somewhere you said you do so 48 hours prior), why do you not place this bid upfront as Bidder Number 1?
   
   
2. Given that Bidder 8 placed a bid of $501 with 1 minute 9 seconds to go; and you placed your fixed bid of $1972 with 11 seconds to go, how would the other 8 bidders "have an opportunity to outbid this client"?

Here is the link to the bidding history again: http://www.netfleet.com.au/auction-history/?sid=1035067

So you sort of answered No 2 but not quite.

And I really would appreciate an answer to Number 1 please. It's very important to know this for future purposes.

 

[AnthonyP]

1. To give us the most time to receive a reply from the client.

2. You win the auction by having the highest bid in the system at the close of the auction, this is the same for all.

We have a plan on the chalkboard to start ending the auctions an hour early and then to allow extended bidding. We are waiting for the start of daylight savings to introduce this change to minimise confusion.

 

[chris]

Brickbats and bouquets - without fear or favour. When I passed the baton on to you, I said I never let sponsorships stop me from calling someone out or having a contrary opinion. Or praising people / sponsors to high heavens when they deserved it.

I want to be clear that we're not censoring anything or siding with sponsors. My integrity is important to me and my approach to managing the community is to allow everyone to be heard, both sides.

It's not the first time there has been criticism of a sponsor and I'm sure it won't be the last. Our objective is to try and enable an open dialogue. In my opinion this is more productive. We also wanted members to be more respectful of each other and value each others contributions to the community.

I've seen this kind of thing escalate is the past, good example was the geek/talk forums where the major sponsor essentially ended up calling the shots, becoming immune from genuine criticism, administrators would side with them despite the sponsors dubious behaviour. That is how it can end up when sponsorship starts to factor in moderation decisions.

Thanks for your feedback snoopy. Sure this may happen on other forums, but not here. I could see things getting a little nasty so I just reminded everyone of the rules, no one forced me to do anything and no one is pulling any strings. DNTrade is an independent party and we want all members to feel comfortable contributing.

Cheers,
Chris

 

[neddy]

1. To give us the most time to receive a reply from the client.

2. You win the auction by having the highest bid in the system at the close of the auction, this is the same for all.

We have a plan on the chalkboard to start ending the auctions an hour early and then to allow extended bidding. We are waiting for the start of daylight savings to introduce this change to minimise confusion.

This is like pulling teeth ...........

Your 48 hour comment has obviously confused me. Let's use bang.com.au as an actual example then (then are no privacy issues that I can think of here).

When did you receive confirmation of their fixed bid of $1972?

Was it up to 48 hours before the auction closed?

Or was it the same day? And if so, was it more than 30 minutes before the end of the auction?

I'm sure you can see where I'm heading with this. Did you have this bid in hand and then use it to reverse snipe the other 8 bidders?

These are fair questions aren't they?