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auDA announces "Domain Investor Focus Group" without even calling for members

Discussion in 'Domain News' started by snoopy, Aug 24, 2018.

  1. findtim

    findtim Membership: VIP

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    auDA Member:
    Yes
    ok, reply to this long reply.
    firstly, sorry for the sexist remark, truly.

    cmwg, well it just seems that way based on the recent forum and the lack of cmwg involvement on THAT SIDE of the table, how embarrassing that cmwg were not included in the answering of questions by members !

    hands up all those people that believe the effort of consultation submissions is worth the time?
    how about inside influence??? i always supported the cmwg as being independent but i don't feel its ended that way.
    firstly "THE" how can it be just the one?
    fair point
    henry established a NEED before he built a car ! he then worked out the $$ to find if it was viable and then he worked out how to implement it. THANKS for bringing that up
    true, mention that to auda please.
    demand? what demand for a .au ? i think its just something a small group of noisy agitators want
    this is a defeatist statement, it concludes its a given and it isn't, this is the problem, take away implementation and go first to viability and you do not have to deal with implementation or monetisation issues.
    TOTALLY agree, parked websites SUCK and mosttttttttt make just pennies, thats why i am a developer and not a domainer. but auda have to realise this is a "property" market no different from MANY others which are accepted by people and government.
    vacant land abounds in suburbs and cities, just look at between flinders and spencer stations as you do the turn, that big ugly bird has been sitting there for years and just now its being built, brissie look outside of roma street, that triangle parking lot next to the pedestrian overpass, vacant for yearsssss, not to mention cathedral sq near the valley was vacant for 20+ YEARS, SYDNEY !!! just name it, pyrmont area, barangaroo ! there's no difference to them and a domain name, people got in first and bought, sat and then built or sold to someone who built, NO BODY came and said "sorry, we are taking your land away from you"

    more to say but i'll stop.
    tim
     
  2. Drop.com.au

    Drop.com.au Membership: VIP

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    All good, let get into the habit of saying we hope they have the guts to do XYZ because girls are perfectly capable of doing great things. I do wonder if one day the gastrophiles will also say it is gastrophobic of me to make that comment.
    Thanks for the clarification, I am not on the CMWG so I was looking at it from the macro level. I am interest to know if it does get disbanded officially. I am also interested to know if ever the PRP was to get derailed officially. From my perspective auDA has been so busy with governance changes that they have not been able to do some of their actual job, like reviewing policies. From what I can see the 2015 Names Panel is the last policy review to have been completed and made official recommendations to the board. The last 3 years have been a bit of a blank in terms of finishing things so I am keen to see the PRP or the CMWG get to the point of making recommendations.

    I for one plan to keep making submissions and participating in focus groups and policy review panels.
    Hands up everyone who believes that harassing auDA via dntrade and turning them into domainerphobes is worth the time and achieving anything?

    I probably don't know enough about it. I am a little outside of the loop but I do respect you, are you on the CMWG and can you tell me how it got derailed? I would have come to the pub last night to ask about this but it was my daughters birthday.
    "There can be only one, raaaa" ... okay enough highlander quotes from me.
    Is it fair to say that you have an opinion on demand which is gained from a small group of people talking to one another again and again repeating the same thing on this forum. You also conducted research by contacting all of your own pool of customers asking them a completely different question to the one of "would you register a .au if you could" and then you have proposed that answer to refute evidence of the independent survey conducted by auDA of 1,000 random participants as "proof" that there is no demand? Then in the face of actual evidence to the contrary you have repeated the same evidence for about 2 years now while demanding a business case to help prove if there is demand before allowing auDA enough room to determine a potential "how" in order to make a proper business case which will factor real risks to businesses which might be affected by the how.

    And for goodness sake you cannot logically claim there is no demand AND there is a huge risk at the same time... if there was no demand (like for id.au or asn.au domains, there there would be no risk). It is because there is demand that we need to be concerned about risk. Logically the Yes/No demand answer is so obvious that no one at auDA can understand how you could even question it never mind spend money on a business case to analyse it.

    I am not old enough to have actually met Mr Ford, I am pretty sure that the demand was for a faster horse and he built a car instead. Inadvertently creating a demand for petrol which melted our ice caps while creating a byproduct which gets turned into plastic which then ends up destroying our oceans and getting into our digestive systems and literally meaning it is going to take guts to undo what he created.

    Lets break it down, Viability means "ability to work successfully"... so in your opinion auDA needs to put down on paper (a business case) some predictions on the ability of .au to work successfully. You are also demanding that they do this without any regard for HOW it might get implemented.

    Their logic as I understand it is 1) We have done a survey and 70% of people wanted the .au when we offered it so it looks pretty popular. 2) We know that technically it is trivial to implement. 3) There is precedent in all the other top 10 ccTLDs that it can be done BUT We are worried about HOW it might affect people so we are going to go ahead and get the PRP to get ideas on implementation so we can do a realistic business case where the RISKs section would be devoted to how it would affect existing registrants.

    It looks to me like they are doing the right thing by getting together all the data they need in order to do a business case. To be clear they are collecting pros and cons, they are looking at demand and risks together which can ONLY be done once the PRP give them an implementation model.

    So seriously, there can be only one (highlander was right) and it should take into account the 2 million small businesses who you think are going to get inconvenience by it.
    My point was that parked sites suck less than dead ends. I also know that auDA is not ignorant of how monetisation works and how domainers fit into the ecosystem. What the PRP says and thinks is a different matter obviously but I consider their hostile rhetoric to be the result of being attacked by domainers rather than the result of logical deduction. The DIWG is the concise logical voice the aftermarket needs to give input to the PRP so they can make logical decisions. Even if the PRP stayed as hostile as they are and put forward a proposal to remove monetisation I still don't think the board would accept that recommendation. Even if they did remove the monetisation rule it would not result in the widespread loss of land you are suggesting. It would require domainers to start being developers again and putting up a bunch of sites with content and links, which is essentially what all websites are anyway and why all com.au domains are by nature monetised too.

     
  3. Scott.L

    Scott.L Membership: Trader

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    auDA Member:
    Yes
    Just get a Philippine call centre in Cebu to decide it.
     
  4. findtim

    findtim Membership: VIP

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    yeh, i was looking forward to your arrival but kids birthdays are top of the tree, my max just had his 10th !!
    he didn't have a clue what he was getting but i think i nailed the perfect 10yr old boy 2018 pressie. he LOVES it.

    ------------
    as always you make good points but i won't continue with the "tennis match" but just pick some things, no avoiding just saving time.

    done.

    no i'm not on the cmwg, i worked on getting it started and have been to the forums + meetings

    and i thought the vision for it was clear but it seems to me it has been railroaded just before it arrived at the station, my understanding it was going to continue but my gut says something has changed after i left the board. we'll see.

    as for me surveying my clients and telling them 1 side of the story that is totally untrue, i've always stated the positives OOPS i meant THE positive.....its shorter !

    there's no doubt it can be done, what we need to look at is the 2019 uk data and ditch the 2015 names panel data. i can't see any reason to race into it when the uk is set to deliver a milestone event on june 25th 2019.

    the knowledge that will come from that should add great value to any recommendation the prp make and decision the auda board see as the next step, that being wither forward or backward !

    and as for henry ford, coles bought out hormone free meat, when will they start advertising "plastic free fish" ?

    tim
     
  5. Cherie Quin

    Cherie Quin Membership: Community

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    sorry im bit late on chat, but will there be a web developer group ?
     
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  6. findtim

    findtim Membership: VIP

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    auDA Member:
    Yes
    it wouldn't be a bad idea as there are many different stakeholders to consider. i personally can't see why there would be a limit if each has a point of focus.

    which brings me to the DIWG, it does have a good range of diversity in the group and i think that's a good thing, its whether it can maintain its independence, i hope it can.

    same goes for any other group that may form to review the massive changes occurring , as long as ALL the information is given to them so a full view of any viewpoint is well informed.

    eg: i heard on the grape vine the cmwg asked for certain documentation on membership and although told they would get it actually never did, if this is the case how can a true recommendation be made and if this is a recurring theme how can any other panel/group also succeed ?
    for more info you'll need to ask a cmwg member
    tim
    note: apparently this request was made after i left the board so this is not board info.
     
  7. Jimboot

    Jimboot Membership: Community

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    How about a digital marketing group? We have to deal with the fallout. Tim is right. Business does not want direct AU. I've spoken in front of over 1000 people this year in Syd, Mel, BNE & ADL. The response is always incredulity. All they ask is "Why?" ..and here we are.
     
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  8. Scott.L

    Scott.L Membership: Trader

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    auDA Member:
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    We should have a Philippine Call Centre Work Group (PCCWG) or Perhaps we could get an International Registrar Employee Work Group and call it, iREG [ Cool Acronym ], have the Saudi's, Philippines, Singapore, US and Canadians all together. We all know who can Donate (DN8) a few to the cause for a couple of weeks.
     
  9. findtim

    findtim Membership: VIP

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    yep, good idea, as you and i have said before if .au comes in we could be set to make a killing ! because of all the s**T it will create that will need fixing/blocking/preventing/etccc but funny how we are both not wanting this money !

    a good group of professional SEO and Social media experts could shine some light on a case study, it would be good to have independent costs and create a comparable bench mark.

    its one thing for someone to say " ahhh, yeh, that will only cost you $300 bucks" and when you come to buy you get told " ahhh NAHHHH, thats $3000 ! "

    tim
     
  10. Drop.com.au

    Drop.com.au Membership: VIP

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    You spoke to them and then according to you they all agreed with you, then you came here and found that you and Tim found the same results and concluded that the only possibility is that you are both right. Has it entered into your reasoning that you could both be biased?

    As a marketing front man for your own SEO company it is natural that you ignore opinions that don't lead where you are wanting to go. It is also natural that you are skilled at imparting an opinion in order to get a result. So this is not meant as a personal criticism because you seem to be skilled at marketing but you also need to realise that you bring a huge amount of moderator bias into into quantitive research you attempt to do yourself.

    Can you answer my nagging question about how you can claim there is no demand and yet also claim there is huge risk?
    - Anthony
     
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  11. Drop.com.au

    Drop.com.au Membership: VIP

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    So June 25 2019 is the final day people can claim rights on existing .uk domains right? Then 1 July 2019 will then be the first time people can register .uk domains which are exact matches for .co.uk domains registered before 2013 right? So if I am expanding on your SEO/Marketing thinking some small businesses who did not take up the offer of the .uk domain are going to start losing traffic to the new registrant very quickly and then the established business is going to try to sue the new company (assuming the dispute resolution process can not help them) and then you think we can get evidence of these court cases and we can use that to prove that there is risk introducing direct registrations?
    - Anthony
     
  12. Bacon Farmer

    Bacon Farmer Membership: VIP

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    Is there any evidence of informed demand from those that understand the ramifications of direct registrations to their existing domains especially given no concrete pathway for implementation has been provided and looks like won't.
     
  13. findtim

    findtim Membership: VIP

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    auDA Member:
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    if you look at what i wrote and you quoted.....
    ..... i didn't make any such claim except that there would be more information available to us in australia to consider.
    tim
     
  14. Drop.com.au

    Drop.com.au Membership: VIP

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    Okay so what is so significant about the date then?
     
  15. Drop.com.au

    Drop.com.au Membership: VIP

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    Oh you wanted research on "informed demand" that makes much more sense, now I can see your confusion.

    The 2015 Names panel was give the task of looking at YES/NO with the HOW to be done by the next group (the PRP). So they had to do research on "demand" full stop.

    Once the PRP gets to a point of making recommendations into HOW it will then be possible to ask questions around informed demand and auDA will be able to make a business plan as promised by Cameron at the AGM.

    We are now all waiting for the PRP finish their bit (Oct/Nov 2018) so they can put the YES/NO together with the HOW and then we can finally have an informed debate around .au direct registration at the end of this year.
    - Anthony
     
  16. Bacon Farmer

    Bacon Farmer Membership: VIP

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    Would you like a Ferrari?

    Demand: Yes, please.

    You have to pay for it.

    Informed demand: No thanks.
     
  17. Bacon Farmer

    Bacon Farmer Membership: VIP

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    There's no confusion here. auDA will ram direct registrations through regardless.

    And I don't think you are confused as you know Drop will definitely benefit from bringing it in.
     
  18. Drop.com.au

    Drop.com.au Membership: VIP

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    Exactly and I agree when there is a price to pay the whole world looks different and I have no problem with that.
    There is a process to work out the cost which in this case is the impact on domain investors. So a Domain Investor Working Group made up of some of the most impacted players seems to be sensible. auDA and the PRP are listening and working on the ideas so we should all be happy this is taking place right?
     
  19. Drop.com.au

    Drop.com.au Membership: VIP

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    Drop will benefit but that does not in itself make me wrong to think that it will eventually be a good thing for domain investors.
    auDA is not ramming anything through, they delayed this by two years in order to make space to listen to feedback.
    In my opinion the anti direct registration feedback orchestrated by this forum was not constructive nor was it delivered professionally. There where all sorts of flaws in the logic and the biggest mistake was pro-porting to speak on behalf of small businesses. This unprofessional conduct has hurt the aftermarket considerably and I for one welcome the DIWG for doing this through the proper channels and I hope they take this opportunity to speak out on their own behalf.
    - Anthony
     
  20. Bacon Farmer

    Bacon Farmer Membership: VIP

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    No it should never have been accepted at the first stage. The simplistic "demand" evidence should never have been used to get to the next step.