Article on SEO + generic v's branded domains

[Shane]

http://www.smartcompany.com.au/internet/20110429-how-i-solved-my-cashflow-crisis-with-seo.html

The main article is really about SEO, but there's some interesting discussion below regarding domains.

 

[DavidL]

http://www.smartcompany.com.au/internet/20110429-how-i-solved-my-cashflow-crisis-with-seo.html

The main article is really about SEO, but there's some interesting discussion below regarding domains.

Which Rob McIntosh has got quite right and the others have got wrong IMO

Vroomvroomvroom.com.au does well in search despite the domain name not because of it.

When we introduced Vroom Vroom Vroom (yes a bit long) but it worked in search engines (coz it was noticeable and memorable)

The only thing a catchy name like that could help is in CTR - maybe people would be more likely to click on it than htfsdf.com.au. However I think CTR of CarHire.com.au would be even better!

 

[FirstPageResults]

Another part of the argument is that they are operating in the UK, NZ, US and CA makets.. would've been hard/costly to get a premium generic name for all of those markets.

CarHire.com.au is clearly a category killer though, no argument there.

 

[snoopy]

"You look at a URL like “carhire.com.au”, but it doesn’t get as much traffic because it doesn’t have a memorable brand."

Somehow I don't think the domain is the difference between the two companies. vroomvroomvroom.com.au is pretty hard to remember in my view. It is kind of "cool" but I really doubt I will be able to remember it an hour from now.

Half agree with the comment about carhire.com.au, it does not really function as a brand at all. I think it is quite memorable though. Best choice from a small player entering the market in my view with all the other benefits they'll gain.

 

[DavidL]

The thing is they only get 40% of their traffic from search. Vroomvroomvroom.com.au may well be a better name for their other types of marketing.

the other thing that is quite wrong is:

wotif, seek, ebay, amazon, google, apple etc...

not...

hotels, jobs, auctions, books, search, mp3 etc...

None of the former used their brand to get a foothold. Every one of these companies became successful due to innovation, expertise and quality fo their products.

In fact out of the sites that came later - less innovative but trying to carve a slice of the market - many of they did/do benefit from the very same generic domain names which are dismissed in the the above comment- like jobs.com.au, hotels.com

 

[zhenjie]

Even though I'm a domainer, I also believe in branding before a 'category killer' domain name, this is more true in specific industries then others.

 

[Honan]

"You look at a URL like “carhire.com.au”, but it doesn’t get as much traffic because it doesn’t have a memorable brand."

Somehow I don't think the domain is the difference between the two companies. vroomvroomvroom.com.au is pretty hard to remember in my view. It is kind of "cool" but I really doubt I will be able to remember it an hour from now.

Half agree with the comment about carhire.com.au, it does not really function as a brand at all. I think it is quite memorable though. Best choice from a small player entering the market in my view with all the other benefits they'll gain.

Maybe so.
Possibly off topic: FYI carhire.com.au is a bloody brilliant service
I have used them heaps
Only last week I used them to get a car for 24 hours in Tassie
The rate was nearly 50% off the rate going direct to the car hire company

 

[snoopy]

Even though I'm a domainer, I also believe in branding before a 'category killer' domain name, this is more true in specific industries then others.

I think it does vary a lot from industry to industry, especially the industries dominated by large companies. Then again for small-medium sized business there is a lot of competitive advantage in a keyword domain in my view. Personally I don't believe keyword style domains ever really form strong "brands" when the domain directly describes the business, it is about the opposite to that...generic.

What I find most interesting though is this business has tried both, one of the most valuable domains for his industry versus a worthless brand domain, and found the brand name better. Then again he is using both names and carhire.com.au seems to be ranking on the first page of "car hire", "car rental" etc so it must be driving a reasonable amount of business.

Also interesting is that carrental.com.au (presumably the main competitor in terms of comparisons sites) seem to be pretty high in the paid section, up there with the "big 5" so I'm assuming they have a pretty effective mousetrap to be able to compete. Vroom vroom seems to be generally lower in the paid section, my guess would be they aren't as effective in terms of monetizing eyeballs. I think the non generic would cost them in terms of CTR which will put up their advertising costs straight away. Then again maybe they have tried both domains for PPC.

 

[Drop.com.au]

Even though I'm a domainer, I also believe in branding before a 'category killer' domain name, this is more true in specific industries then others.

+1

Reminded of the old Candy.com argument.

Question: "Why don't Hershey's buy Candy.com? They are so short sighted."

Answer: Because they don't sell candy. They sell Hershey's.

Works for any category killer domain and famous brand (with a few exceptions) ...

Andrew

 

[snoopy]

I have used them heaps
Only last week I used them to get a car for 24 hours in Tassie
The rate was nearly 50% off the rate going direct to the car hire company

Cheers Joe,

Will be using this type of service next time I hire one.

 

[DavidL]

+1

Reminded of the old Candy.com argument.

Question: "Why don't Hershey's buy Candy.com? They are so short sighted."

Answer: Because they don't sell candy. They sell Hershey's.

Works for any category killer domain and famous brand (with a few exceptions) ...

Andrew

Difference is we're not talking famous brands - we're talking about marketing for SME's really aren't we (like Vro....oom.com.au).

That's where a generic domain will beat a branded domain every time in SEO and SEM.

What I find most interesting though is this business has tried both, one of the most valuable domains for his industry versus a worthless brand domain, and found the brand name better. Then again he is using both names and carhire.com.au seems to be ranking on the first page of "car hire", "car rental" etc so it must be driving a reasonable amount of business.

Also interesting is that carrental.com.au (presumably the main competitor in terms of comparisons sites) seem to be pretty high in the paid section, up there with the "big 5" so I'm assuming they have a pretty effective mousetrap to be able to compete. Vroom vroom seems to be generally lower in the paid section, my guess would be they aren't as effective in terms of monetizing eyeballs. I think the non generic would cost them in terms of CTR which will put up their advertising costs straight away. Then again maybe they have tried both domains for PPC.

They didn't try both on a level playing field - they have a quick lash at SEO-ing carhire.com.au years after pushing vroo..om.com.au.

SEO is always hard to compare but if they started with 2 identical websites, using each domain and pushed the SEO and SEM I have no doubt whatsoever the generic would perform better.

I've posted these before but worth doing so again:

http://www.memorabledomains.co.uk/ppcanalysis.pdf

http://www.memorabledomains.co.uk/bingyahoogoogle.pdf

Generic domains all the way... (who picked netfleet.com.au?!)

 

[James]

Pretty silly argument, this is an old argument too..

Look at Realestate.com.au for example category killer.

These guys are just trying to make a name for them selves, I bet they have heaps of typo traffic too with the o's in that domain.

Furthermore I noticed they are doing heaps of article syndication lets see how that one places out LOL..

But really Smart Company need to get articles form big players in SEO, too many SME's and people like RESEO writing stuff on this blog it is most of the time not the best content yet I guess it is their target market???

 

[Drop.com.au]

Difference is we're not talking famous brands - we're talking about marketing for SME's really aren't we (like Vro....oom.com.au).

Actually I don't disagree with you. I was more commenting on zhenjie's post.

Generic's (or "category killers", how I hate that term) cry out to be developed as aggregators/lead generators (and not replacements for existing brands).

...although as aggregators/lead generators wotif.com, seek.com, catchoftheday.com.au, groupon.com, livingsocial.co, oo.com.au etc haven't done too badly pursuing the non generic/category killer route.

Maybe you should buy buydomains.com.au David? It would be better for SEO and SEM than Netfleet

Andrew

 

[Drop.com.au]

Oh, and by the way branding.com.au is for sale also...

 

[snoopy]

They didn't try both on a level playing field - they have a quick lash at SEO-ing carhire.com.au years after pushing vroo..om.com.au.

I don't think he has said anything like that, (below)

we bought carhire.com.au in 2001 for $2k, setup a discount site and it did ok.

When we introduced Vroom Vroom Vroom (yes a bit long) but it worked in search engines (coz it was noticeable and memorable) and in particular because Richard was a guru at drastically improving the position in Google.

now that Vroom is number one in the category, it has really strong word of mouth helped by a brand name that can be protected by a trademark and not be confused with the hundreds of sites with car, hire, rentals, web etc in their names.

btw Vroom still owns and runs carhire.com.au but it is not the site that get the traffic and wom. go figure!

SEO is always hard to compare but if they started with 2 identical websites, using each domain and pushed the SEO and SEM I have no doubt whatsoever the generic would perform better.

I think there is a fair bit more to this business than just SEO given he talks about word of mouth as a major driver and 40% of people searching for his brand.

 

[Jonathan]

If you're entering a competitive (i.e. lucrative) niche and you don't have *serious* money to spend on branding, marketing, SEO, etc., I think a generic domain wins hands down.

Even if I did have significant financial backing and was planning on launching a brand, I would do everything I could to secure the relevant generic domain(s) first. Aside from being an important defensive purchase, a 'carhire.com.au' would be a fantastic base to launch a 'vroomvroomvroom.com.au' from.

 

[joe]

They didn't try both on a level playing field - they have a quick lash at SEO-ing carhire.com.au years after pushing vroo..om.com.au.

I don't think he has said anything like that, (below)

It's not mentioned in the article but I'm pretty sure that's how it happened. I remember getting hit up for links to carhire.com.au in 2007.

 

[DavidL]

Maybe you should buy buydomains.com.au David? It would be better for SEO and SEM than Netfleet

Andrew

Do you think I didn't try? You know who owns it right? If you do, you can imagine the conversation!

I don't think he has said anything like that, (below)

You're quite right - misread.

I think there is a fair bit more to this business than just SEO given he talks about word of mouth as a major driver and 40% of people searching for his brand.

Yes that's what I said before - vroo...oom.com.au *may* well have been a better name to build their biz on overall because their main focus wasn't SEO. Just from an SEO perspective it really isn't - contrary to what they say Google doesn't care for the 'brandability' of a domain.,

If you're entering a competitive (i.e. lucrative) niche and you don't have *serious* money to spend on branding, marketing, SEO, etc., I think a generic domain wins hands down.

Even if I did have significant financial backing and was planning on launching a brand, I would do everything I could to secure the relevant generic domain(s) first. Aside from being an important defensive purchase, a 'carhire.com.au' would be a fantastic base to launch a 'vroomvroomvroom.com.au' from.

Maybe the best idea is start with a generic (or several generic domains) and build a steady market through SEO. Then when you've got your millions to spend, switch the focus to the brand.

Just for interest, here's the historic backlink analysis of the two domains for the last couple of years:

https://www.majesticseo.com/reports...&d2=&d3=&d4=&type=1&ctype=0&IndexDataSource=H