Chris.C
Top Contributor
I've had an offer of $1500 for KitchenDoors.com.au I'm asking for $2750 on NetFleet:
http://www.netfleet.com.au/kitchendoors.com.au
http://www.netfleet.com.au/kitchendoors.com.au
KitchenDoors.com.au - Counter Offers?
- Thread starter Chris.C
- Start date
Chris.C
Top Contributor
Yes I remember.
First offer was $300, I asked for $3700, they countered with $1500, I countered with $3250, got no love so I dropped my counter to $2650...
To be honest I'm quite hesitant to go much lower, because this domains has consistently made me $50 - $100/month just sitting there with an old crappy minisite that my brother threw up on it 3 years ago as a site development project.
It's paid for itself handsomely over that time... about $3500, and it's still going strong.
Not bad for a hand reg and a couple of pages of content.
So unless I get north of $2000 I don't have a HUGE incentive to sell.
That's the downside of developing domains, you often make enough out of them to more than cover the development and holding costs, but you often increase the opportunity cost of selling the domain which makes it hard to find middle ground with potential buyers, because I mean $1500 isn't a "terrible" offer, it's just not enough to get me to part with it.
If only I could communicate with the buyer via NF I'd be able to tell them the site already gets over 1500 visitors a month... so even if the value of visitors to your business is $1 this domain and it's crap minisite will more than pay for itself in the first month!
If only I could communicate with the buyer via NF I'd be able to tell them the site already gets over 1500 visitors a month... so even if the value of visitors to your business is $1 this domain and it's crap minisite will more than pay for itself in the first month!
You could (should) put this in the description at least. However might be too late for this particular buyer who probably won't look at the description again
Chris.C
Top Contributor
Do people even read the description?
I expect so - esp. end-users who have seen the listing for the first time.
findtim
Top Contributor
thanks to johno69 i'm now hooked on sharktank, just youtube it and watch a few episodes, great learning about doing deals.
after watching 36 episodes !! in the last few weeks i would say stick to you guns, if it is making 50-100 bucks a month then why sell it? let it keep rolling, watch some shark tank episodes HONESTLY and i know i might get slagged for this but if you don't NEED the money then take the high ground.
you are obviously a numbers guy from what i have read of your posts, and the numbers you've given means "you don't need to sell" , kitchendoors are not a fad... its here to stay.
play hard ball
tim
after watching 36 episodes !! in the last few weeks i would say stick to you guns, if it is making 50-100 bucks a month then why sell it? let it keep rolling, watch some shark tank episodes HONESTLY and i know i might get slagged for this but if you don't NEED the money then take the high ground.
you are obviously a numbers guy from what i have read of your posts, and the numbers you've given means "you don't need to sell" , kitchendoors are not a fad... its here to stay.
play hard ball
tim
Data Glasses
Top Contributor
Tend to agree, if an asset is making money it's gonna cost to acquire it now, if not later
Chris.C
Top Contributor
I am very much a numbers guy, but being a real numbers guys that force me to consider things like opportunity cost, ROI, cash flow and most importantly "risk"...
And there is something to be said for the old saying "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush".
And I have a large proportion of my net worth tied up in domain. Liquidating them for fair value is difficult making them high risk in the short term. And whilst values have been trending upwards over the long term, whether they will do that going forward and to what degree is uncertain.
In my case if I'm not getting at least a 20% return pa then opportunity cost starts coming into the equation.
Ie, a 20% return on $2650 is $530 a year. And I'm very confident I can get a 20% return on cash and a cash position is relatively riskless.
On the flip side let's say that therefore I need an additional 15% return on domains to compensate me for the risk, meaning domains need to make 35% pa to justify investing in them.
So let's "assume" (always a very risky word to use when doing a risk analysis) that I'll continue earning $50/month from the site, that means I'll make $600 in revenue over 12 months. Meaning I'll get a 22% return in cash flow, which means that the domain needs to appreciate in value by the other 13% to justify the risk.
Then of course you need to consider downside risk, if I knock back the deal, but then have to put the domain up for auction tomorrow, what would I get at auction. By my best guess I'd get between $250 - $500 I'd suspect.
So then my decision becomes, how confident am I that I'll continue earning $50/month and how confident am I domains will appreciate by 13% over 12 months, and how confident that I would be able to find a retail buyer again in 12 months at the 13% increase value, ie $3000, and what sort of marketing costs might be involved with finding that buyer.
If I'm very confident, I don't sell, if I'm not as certain I sell.
I consider all these things when opting to buy or sell.
I definitely don't "assume" it's a one way market, rather I just do a risk-reward calculation.
That's why NetFleet developing the AMA is a MASSIVE deal - it helps eliminate "liquidity risk" and helps reduce marketing costs of sourcing buyers.
And that's why I love seeing good PR about large domain sales, because it helps increase the number of retail buyers who would be willing to buy a domain due to increased public awareness which reduces the risk that if you needed to liquidate that you would have to liquidate to another domainer or developer rather would be selling to a retailer who would be willing to pay closer to fair price even if was still at a marked discount.
Anyway my point is "standing your ground" isn't always prudent when it comes to investing.
findtim
Top Contributor
chris c, definately a numbers guy, sell the bloody thing !! 
you're thinking to hard.
now for my story, choose to read or not.
---------
when helena got preggy with our first child she owned a car that she owed $15k on , a delivery florist van, no good for a newborn !
put it on carsales, got ONE phone call !!! , he came out ( it was a GREAT van ) offered $14.5k and i took it, helena wasn't happy but i said to her " if i let him go then you have to pay next months payment and then you are back to $14.5k so all you did was lose a month, after that you were downhill"
this is different to you, you're saying its making money so, if a domain is in profit give me another 1000 domains!
if the number$ drop then either flog them for nothing or let them drop.
"toaster theory" why do people sell toasters at garage sales? they bought it for $20 its cost them 0.000001 cents a toast for the last 5 years BLOODY GIVE it to someone who can't afford a toaster.
tim
you're thinking to hard.now for my story, choose to read or not.
---------
when helena got preggy with our first child she owned a car that she owed $15k on , a delivery florist van, no good for a newborn !
put it on carsales, got ONE phone call !!! , he came out ( it was a GREAT van ) offered $14.5k and i took it, helena wasn't happy but i said to her " if i let him go then you have to pay next months payment and then you are back to $14.5k so all you did was lose a month, after that you were downhill"
this is different to you, you're saying its making money so, if a domain is in profit give me another 1000 domains!
if the number$ drop then either flog them for nothing or let them drop.
"toaster theory" why do people sell toasters at garage sales? they bought it for $20 its cost them 0.000001 cents a toast for the last 5 years BLOODY GIVE it to someone who can't afford a toaster.
tim
Chris.C
Top Contributor
Thinking too hard...?chris c, definately a numbers guy, sell the bloody thing !!
I call it being rational.
My "hard thinking" has always told me irrationality doesn't make for a good investment trait, as long as over thinking doesn't destroys ones ability to make an efficient decision.
I would have sold to the first guy as well.
I have a number of domains that producing positive cashflow, but the thing is they are dependant on Google for that cashflow and as we all know Google is a fickle beast, and there is a lot of risk tied up with relying on Google. So I don't like to make investment decisions on the "assumption" that today's earnings will continue.
I've been making my living from online assets for a good 7 or 8 years now and in that time I've seen countless individuals hitch their wagons to the Google train only to be wiped out.
Indeed one of the big reasons I moved into AU domains was because I wanted to diversify away from Google a bit and I saw potential in domains.
Well my strategy centres on buying domains that only have inherit value from a pure domain perspective as well, I just build out sites on domains to produce income in the short run.
Plus once you have developed a domain, it only has to earn $2/month to justify not dropping it, given that the development costs are sunk. So I rarely drop a domain that I have already developed.
Well if you are going to go to the trouble of having a garage sale, the marginal cost of also selling the toaster is nothing so why not make an extra couple of dollars out of selling the toaster.
It's like listing domains that you plan to drop anyway on the AMA first. The marginal cost of adding a domain to the AMA is next to nothing, but if it sells you make yourself an easy $50 profit.
johno69
Top Contributor
Chris.C
Top Contributor
Given that the buyer hasn't responded and there is only 2 days left on their offer I have sent through a "final offer" of $2200 to see if that gets them across the line.
At that price I don't mind if they don't buy, I'll just keep the domain. Who knows they might come back in a few months time with renewed vigour.
findtim
Top Contributor
well it shows there is interest and you have a price someone was willing to go for.
tim
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now the story, i don't like it but its true.
i know someone that buys houses, he always sends in his mate to bleed the owner down as low as he can and then his mate pulls out of the sale, he waits a week or 2 and then he comes in fresh with a lower offer and most times buys the house as he now knows the lowest price and the person doesn't want to lose another prospect.
he then throws his mate a couple of grand for the effort, he owns 400+ houses ! and i know he does as he paid me to go up in a plane and photograph them all so he could map out the "titles" he owned to put with his will.
old trick i know but worth mentioning.
tim
tim
-----------------
now the story, i don't like it but its true.
i know someone that buys houses, he always sends in his mate to bleed the owner down as low as he can and then his mate pulls out of the sale, he waits a week or 2 and then he comes in fresh with a lower offer and most times buys the house as he now knows the lowest price and the person doesn't want to lose another prospect.
he then throws his mate a couple of grand for the effort, he owns 400+ houses ! and i know he does as he paid me to go up in a plane and photograph them all so he could map out the "titles" he owned to put with his will.
old trick i know but worth mentioning.
tim
Honan
Top Contributor
Chris.C
Top Contributor
What and squeeze the margin out of the market...
LOL - it's to do with the share market.
I should point out that those returns of 20% pa do carry a degree of risk also, but if you know what you are doing, pick the right companies, have a degree of diversification and risk management strategies along with a sufficient capital base you can make a reasonable return that justifies your time and the risk.
That said, I'm an investor in domains precisely because I think they are a better investment class than most assets at the moment. So I wouldn't be recommending anyone rush out and start trading shares/options/cfds or anything because there is the potential to make a 20% return...
Chris.C
Top Contributor
That's exactly why I develop a lot of domains so they produce an income of their own...
When you have positive cash flow from investments you are never a "forced seller".
The man that can't walk away from the negotiating table is the one that gets bent over it.
findtim
Top Contributor
That's exactly why I develop a lot of domains so they produce an income of their own...
When you have positive cash flow from investments you are never a "forced seller".
The man that can't walk away from the negotiating table is the one that gets bent over it.
i wouldn't have said it that way but you are right, "bent over" brings back to many memories of dealing with a "gay pub" ( nothing thats there's anything wrong with that ) and getting "screwed over"
tim
Duly noted.
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