Who Said Hyphens Are Worth Nothing

[Blue Wren]

I prefer non hyphenated.

Does it pass the Radio Test?

 

[neddy]

hyphens are great for sending messages in morse code

.... --- -. .- -. .. ... .- -.-. --- -- . -.. .. .- -.

:d

 

[snoopy]

Type bush furniture into Google without the hypen just type bush furniture. Then look at where bush-furniture.com.au sits. Just goes to dhow the hypen can also still get on first page which generates an income for this business so thats value right there.

Question:

For the people saying, look at the Google rank for keyword-keyword.com.au etc, why would anyone think Google would treat them any differently to a name without a hyphen? Google isn't likely to apply a penalty. Really every second domain in the serps would be a hyphen if business liked them.

I think the point is they are only good for SEO and nothing else.

 

[snoopy]

http:// www.byron-bay. com is a great exception but proves an earlier point about how it takes an inhouse effort to make it work, the guys behind this VERY successful website have been at it SOLID for @ 15 years AND know their stuff but "you couldn't pay to have it done for you" , they lived on toast and vegemite in the early days and are now reaping the rewards.

tim

If you go to the website is is pretty easy to see the "mistake" and the "cure". They have bought byronbay.com and calling the site that, this looks like a relatively recent change. Maybe they could have got even smarter and bought the .au.

So obviously the site owners see an issue with the hyphen to be moving away from it. I would imagine they couldn't decommission the hyphen for a long time though because of all the links, history etc. In my opinion it is a good example of a site which has been successful despite multiple issues with their domain.

 

[Shane]

I think the point is they are only good for SEO and nothing else.

I agree. If you try and build a brand around a hyphenated domain you'll just be sending a heap of traffic to the non-hyphenated version.

But if it's only search engine traffic you're after, then sure go for a hyphen.

 

[DavidL]

Question:

For the people saying, look at the Google rank for keyword-keyword.com.au etc, why would anyone think Google would treat them any differently to a name without a hyphen? Google isn't likely to apply a penalty. Really every second domain in the serps would be a hyphen if business liked them.

I think the point is they are only good for SEO and nothing else.

Yes agreed (and PPC too), however do not underestimate SEO. Plenty of businesses gain 100% of their customers from the web and are quite happy doing so rather than trying to create a brand or engaging in expensive offline marketing.

And if you can buy a hyphenated name for 1/10th- 1/20th (guess here) of the price of a non-hyphenated and are happy to adopt that strategy then why not.

 

[snoopy]

Yes agreed (and PPC too), however do not underestimate SEO. Plenty of businesses gain 100% of their customers from the web and are quite happy doing so rather than trying to create a brand or engaging in expensive offline marketing.

And if you can buy a hyphenated name for 1/10th- 1/20th (guess here) of the price of a non-hyphenated and are happy to adopt that strategy then why not.

I think it comes back to bite when people want to reorder, or take a while to order initially and try to remember the web address, or forget to type in the hyphen or hear about the site from a friend.

If the domain is 1/20 the price and you lose say 3% of your sales is that worth it?

Most .com.au's are not worth much so the difference between spending say $40 on a hyphen and $800 on the non hyphen is not going to be worth giving up a chuck of your sales for.

 

[DavidL]

I think it comes back to bite when people want to reorder, or take a while to order initially and try to remember the web address, or forget to type in the hyphen or hear about the site from a friend.
If the domain is 1/20 the price and you lose say 3% of your sales is that worth it?

Quite right - that's the question... However for the vast majority of domains 3% would be at the high end, I would think.

Most .com.au's are not worth much so the difference between spending say $40 on a hyphen and $800 on the non hyphen is not going to be worth giving up a chuck of your sales for.

Sure but this discussion wasn't stimulated from such priced domains (but nice try having another dig at .au domains LOL). Not many people would try to build a business around a $800 domain (or $40 if hyphenated).

The question is whether one is better to pay $3,500 for car-hire.com.au or $70K for carhire.com.au if you have a view to developing it. Personally I can see both sides of the story.

 

[snoopy]

Not many people would try to build a business around a $800 domain (or $40 if hyphenated).

Most people build businesses around reg fee names.

The question is whether one is better to pay $3,500 for car-hire.com.au or $70K for carhire.com.au if you have a view to developing it. Personally I can see both sides of the story.

If my budget was $70,000 I would go for the non hyphen. If my budget was $3,500 I would go for a weaker term without a hyphen. Two completely different price brackets and types of buyers.

 

[DavidL]

Most people build businesses around reg fee names.

Most people don't understand domains. We're trying to discuss, what the intelligent, informed choice would be.

If my budget was $70,000 I would go for the non hyphen. If my budget was $3,500 I would go for a weaker term without a hyphen. Two completely different price brackets and types of buyers.

I wouldn't pigeonhole buyers by their budgets tbh. Again, we're trying to be analytical about this - what's the best thing to do from an ROI basis. If you restrict the Investment part of this it makes it impossible.

 

[snoopy]

Most people don't understand domains. We're trying to discuss, what the intelligent, informed choice would be.

It is simply a fact that most people do not build businesses around expensive domains, that does not mean the buyer has made a choice that is not intelligent or informed. Aftermarket purchases are a small segment of the market.

I wouldn't pigeonhole buyers by their budgets tbh. Again, we're trying to be analytical about this - what's the best thing to do from an ROI basis. If you restrict the Investment part of this it makes it impossible.

The issue is that the two are in completely difference markets, car-hire.com.au is likely comparable to carhiresydney.com.au or similar not carhire.com.au.

I don't think people will be making a choice between buying car-hire.com.au and carhire.com.au. They might ask for a price on carhire.com.au but if they have a budget for $3500 they are not in the market for the name.

 

[findtim]

If you go to the website is is pretty easy to see the "mistake" and the "cure". They have bought byronbay.com and calling the site that, this looks like a relatively recent change. Maybe they could have got even smarter and bought the .au.

So obviously the site owners see an issue with the hyphen to be moving away from it. I would imagine they couldn't decommission the hyphen for a long time though because of all the links, history etc. In my opinion it is a good example of a site which has been successful despite multiple issues with their domain.

They started before you were allowed to buy the .com.au, so they had the hypened .com. and .com.au and YES, they have sooooo many backlinks and rankings thats why they are slow to move but i'm pretty sure they own the byronbay.com.au even though it looks totally different i think this is their next transition.

i think the .com is important here for them as byron has soooooo many international visitors. same goes for cairns and goldcoast businesses. ( as they are another 2 places i visit and have clients )

These guys are SEO programmers so they will be making all the right moves and perhaps by having a few different domains they take up move postions as well on the first page whilst trying to keep enough different content so not to piss off google.

"successful despite multiple issues.... " , yes , but as i said earlier " you couldn't pay for the hours they have put into it"

tim

 

[geodomains]

They started before you were allowed to buy the .com.au, so they had the hypened .com. and .com.au and YES, they have sooooo many backlinks and rankings thats why they are slow to move but i'm pretty sure they own the byronbay.com.au even though it looks totally different i think this is their next transition.

Well I don't think they own byronbay.com.au unless the owner of Roamfree has sold it to them. I use to own byronbay.com.au and net.au and had a big payday a couple of years ago when I had an offer to good to refuse.
One reason I sold was the guys who own byron-bay.com are so well entrenched.

Don

 

[snoopy]

i think the .com is important here for them as byron has soooooo many international visitors. same goes for cairns and goldcoast businesses. ( as they are another 2 places i visit and have clients )

I think we went over this a couple of weeks ago, 75% of the tourist market is Australian visitors so I think they have made a blunder going with the .com.

These guys are SEO programmers so they will be making all the right moves and perhaps by having a few different domains they take up move postions as well on the first page whilst trying to keep enough different content so not to piss off google.

Nonsense, if they were "making all the right moves" they would not be changing domains from something most people would see as flawed (to another domain that isn't quite right either). In business people make a certain number of mistakes. I'd see this is a company with domain issues, luckily they likely have most things right with their business to have done so well.

 

[Honan]

.... --- -. .- -. .. ... .- -.-. --- -- . -.. .. .- -.

:d

.... --- -. .- -. .. ... .- -.-. --- -- . -.. .. .- -. .COM.AU (includes a dozen sub-domains) No need for that clumsy text messaging now

 

[Rhythm]

I think it comes back to bite when people want to reorder, or take a while to order initially and try to remember the web address, or forget to type in the hyphen or hear about the site from a friend.

So then they google it...

Get with the times.

However I agree about hyphens in a domain not being an ideal domain for branding. (Unless you're European?)

 

[snoopy]

So then they google it...

Get with the times.

However I agree about hyphens in a domain not being an ideal domain for branding. (Unless you're European?)

They won't need to Google it, they can buy from the guy with the non hyphen.

 

[Rhythm]

They won't need to Google it, they can buy from the guy with the non hyphen.

Ok, I'm half wrong and you're half-right.

They won't need to google it a second time, but they won't be buying from the guy with the non-hyphen either. You need to upgrade your browser, or your phone.

(Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to watch ABC.net.au with iiNet.net.au)

(Disclaimer: I own a dozen or so hyphens I think and quite a few .net.au)

 

[snoopy]

They won't need to google it a second time, but they won't be buying from the guy with the non-hyphen either. You need to upgrade your browser, or your phone.

Personally think they'll lose a % of sales. A lot of domainers would have first hand experience making money from this type of scenario. Develop a hyphen and you are doing a great favour from the guy with the non hyphen. It is real sales going to someone else. Not much point telling people to upgrade their browser, that is a bit like telling people to have a better memory. Much like .net.au that you mentioned these names are seriously flawed because they aren't logical.

The other scenario is even for those who go to Google they won't necessarily go to the site they heard about. If they are looking for antique-watches.com.au they will likely find a few dozen comparable sites in the paid and free section. Only thing you can do is make it as easy as possible to remember in my view.

 

[Rhythm]

No, I'm pretty sure Windows Update updates IE and the rest are set to upgrade with the users permission.

The only % of sales 'lost' would be referring to those that decided to type-in the domain incorrectly for the first time after hearing it over the phone/radio - and that's assuming the homepage isn't set to Google. Otherwise I'm pretty certain most traffic comes from links being shared via email/social. Even if the site was communicated via speech/audio - then the other person - if they really were interested - would be writing the domain name down. After the first visit they would either have completed a transaction, bookmarked the site or have the domain cached such that when they do enter the first few letters of the domain the closest matches show up or if the keyword appears in the URI then ditto provided the history is retained in the browser or the site is bookmarked.

As for ranking in the SERPs, it's every site for itself.

Just because something doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean it isn't logical. Is Instagr.am worth $1 billion to you?