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VentraIP Synergy Wholesale against Domain name owners, Domainers & Monetisation?

Discussion in 'Domain News' started by DomainNames, Dec 7, 2017.

  1. DomainNames

    DomainNames Membership: Community

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    Some people in "Supply" are obviously ganging up together to try and push in the proposed competing .au extension but it appears they are Biting the hands that fed them and supported them to where they are now.. It should not be a shock why people are moving names out from them to other registrars!

    This is why I am closing all my business with VentraIP, Synergy Wholesale and why I withdrew my $20,000 in prepaid credit!

    Angelo what are you doing? Seriously you are shooting yourself in the foot with the very people who supported your business before! No problems now you are bigger and do not need domainers and resellers.. we can move our business, new registrations and renewals elsewhere!

    People can register and renew domain names cheaper from other companies without being slapped in the face...



    http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2685777#r55224622
    " User #294894 2210 posts

    Angelo Giuffrida
    VentraIP Australia


    Service Provider

    reference: whrl.pl/Re3cwO

    posted 2017-Dec-7, 4:36 pm AEST
    .....
    Compared to .com, there are plenty of "good" names still available in .au, but the problem is that many of them have been squatted by people trying to profit. Why don't you go after them too?


    If we want to guarantee that names remain available then we should look to ban monetisation of direct .au for 3-5 years after it officially launches.
    ........
    There is no obligation for any existing registrant to take the .au domain name, much the same as there was no obligation for every florist to take their name in .florist, or vets to take their name in .vet, or lawyers to take their name in .lawyer or .legal or .attorney.


    Every web site only has one primary address which is used on letterheads, marketing collateral, and essentially it doesn't matter what that name is used because people are more and more these days relying on search and companies are using the tag line "search <name>" or "search <product>" instead of a domain name or phone number. "
     
  2. Cheyne

    Cheyne Membership: Community

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    Hi Sean,

    VentraIP Australia and Synergy Wholesale are not against anybody, and the insinuation that you are making here is borderline litigious and simply not on.

    You have every right to choose your preferred suppliers, but in this case you are choosing to attempt to defame my businesses by name and offering misquotes as your justification.

    To ensure that you cannot misquote us any further:
    • We have nothing against people who profit from domain names.
    • We have nothing against .au direct registrations.
    • We support and encourage free enterprise.
    • We do not support fear mongering of any kind especially when it is being driven by an undeclared interest masquerading as another.
    For clarity, your mate @snoopy went to the Whirlpool forums and made the following statement:

    "There won't be any good names available to the public, just a mirroring of existing registrations in the new extension."
    https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=2685777#r14

    This statement was quoted by Angelo, our CEO, who quipped that there are plenty of good names available but they are being squatted by domainers (FACT), and that perhaps to guarantee that there are still good domains available when .au direct registrations are introduced we should consider banning monetisation for 3-5 years after it officially launches.

    There is not a single part of that reply that a reasonable person would take to mean that our companies are against domainers, resellers, or any other customer for that matter. @snoopy is the one who said that there were no good domain names left, Angelo simply offered a potential solution to that problem to be put up for discussion.

    If you choose to use a "cheaper" registrar who is based overseas, doesn't pay tax in Australia, and doesn't employ Australian workers, that is entirely your decision and I respect it, but our businesses make the choice to support the Australian economy, jobs and prosperity, and are priced accordingly and we make no apology for that.

    Thank you for your business to date, and hopefully you come back to us soon.
     
    angelogiuffrida likes this.
  3. Bacon Farmer

    Bacon Farmer Membership: VIP

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    You really aren't helping your case by saying banning monetisation isn't anti domainer.
     
    snoopy and DomainNames like this.
  4. DomainNames

    DomainNames Membership: Community

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    Hi Cheyne,

    If anyone is hurting your business reputation on public forums it is you and Angelo's PUBLIC posts which have been quoted. I am not the only person shocked at what is being posted.

    What is the insinuation to people such as myself and thousands of others when Angelo refers to people who invest in domain names as "squatters"? This implies something...and it is against the very people who helped promote your company for so many years not just for our own registrants and renewals but to many more new customers.

    It is factual people can buy and renew .au names ( and others) cheaper at other companies. Why should we pay more for the domain registration and renewal exactly what is the extra benefit to us the .au domain name consumer?

    For years I had been paying the premium to support your business until Angelo's public posts started on Whirlpool... These posts seem to have not stopped. Are you as an organisation trying to discredit people who are against the proposed .au extension somehow? This is how it reads and feels.

    I personally take these posts on Whirlpool as being some sort of strange attack against domainers, Domain name investors.. against domain name consumers by saying things like the proposed .direct extension will just maybe cost people another $100 every 2 years... ( see previous quote from Angelo for exact).

    https://www.dntrade.com.au/threads/moving-my-names-out-and-why.11635/#post-90133
    http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2672195#r54813458

    "User #294894 2183 posts
    Angelo Giuffrida
    VentraIP Australia

    Service Provider
    reference: whrl.pl/Re06hM
    posted 2017-Oct-19, 12:15 pm AEST

    So what side are the people commenting in this thread in? I don't see a single comment from anyone happy about this proposal aside from you.

    This thread has had a grand total of six different people make comments, most of whom are simply questioning the mechanism not the merits.

    The threads on DNTrade have the same four or five people commenting.

    I'm sorry, but this is a non-issue for 'everyday Australians'. At worst they will need to spend less than $100 every two years to buy another domain name if they even want it. That's the extent of it.

    Your interest in this is purely to prevent auDA, the registry operator, and registrars from making money. The proof is in the pudding when reading your current DNTrade signature which says "Have your say on the .AU Cash Grab!". And I'm not saying you're wrong, perhaps it is a money grab by those concerned, but what I take issue with is people pretending to be some sort of ambassador for the "everyday Australian" when it's simply a case of not being in a position to profit.

    Everyday Australians do not want this proposal in my view.

    This statement sounds like it came from the desk of a politician, and we all know how much they genuinely care about the 'everyday Australian'.

    Cheers,
    Angelo"


    http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2685777#r55224622
    " User #294894 2210 posts

    Angelo Giuffrida
    VentraIP Australia


    Service Provider

    reference: whrl.pl/Re3cwO

    posted 2017-Dec-7, 4:36 pm AEST

    .....
    Compared to .com, there are plenty of "good" names still available in .au, but the problem is that many of them have been squatted by people trying to profit. Why don't you go after them too?


    If we want to guarantee that names remain available then we should look to ban monetisation of direct .au for 3-5 years after it officially launches.
    ........
    There is no obligation for any existing registrant to take the .au domain name, much the same as there was no obligation for every florist to take their name in .florist, or vets to take their name in .vet, or lawyers to take their name in .lawyer or .legal or .attorney.


    Every web site only has one primary address which is used on letterheads, marketing collateral, and essentially it doesn't matter what that name is used because people are more and more these days relying on search and companies are using the tag line "search <name>" or "search <product>" instead of a domain name or phone number. "
     
  5. snoopy

    snoopy Membership: VIP

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    Angelo said they are squatting and you said his comments were "FACT".
     
  6. DomainNames

    DomainNames Membership: Community

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    Perhaps you guys need to have a chat internally about your conflicting posts? They certainly are raising a lot of concerns in both Demand and Supply....

    A lot of peoples phone's are running hot after your posts on Whirlpool and here.... People who also had supported your business over the years with domain name registrations, renewals and COR'S are scratching their heads? Do you get it?

    Does me taking out $20,000 from credit I prepaid to your company not make you think it's a problem what you are posting?
    • Are you against people who monetise a domain name? Your company posts seem to say this?
    • Do you think people to monetise a domain name or have multiple domain names are "squatters"? Your company posts seems to say this?
    • Do you think there is a problem with people investing in domain names, using your company to register, renew,COR , sell them or monetise the to make a profit?
    • What is your company definition of a domain name "squatter". From the posts it seems there is a real dislike of people registered multiple names?
    • Bringing in another competing additional .au extension will make some people have to defend register the exact same name with just .au... what do they do with the extra .au name they had to pay for.. "squat" on it, Keep it dead as a blank page? Leave it pointed to their registar default parking page to adverise their registrar business, monetise it?

    "We have nothing against people who profit from domain names." Cheyne
    V
    "the problem is that many of them have been squatted by people trying to profit." Angelo

    "we should look to ban monetisation of direct .au for 3-5 years after it officially launches." Angelo

    "At worst they will need to spend less than $100 every two years to buy another domain name if they even want it. That's the extent of it." Angelo
     
    Bacon Farmer likes this.
  7. DomainNames

    DomainNames Membership: Community

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  8. Cheyne

    Cheyne Membership: Community

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    Angelo replied to a statement that was made by snoopy which said that all the good domain names are taken.

    Where are all the "good" domain names then?
     
    angelogiuffrida likes this.
  9. Cheyne

    Cheyne Membership: Community

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    Sean,

    I have explained this to you time and time again. Every registrar that I have spoken to supports direct registrations, and as of right now it is the boards intention to implement them.

    Your constant posting and quoting of the same information implies that you believe that your own best interests are more important than ours, and that we are automatically wrong simply because we don't share the same view. None of our posts seek to discredit those who oppose .au direct registrations, but on the contrary, every post of yours attempts to personally attack and vilify those who don't.

    What we will do is discredit posts that pretend to be for the benefit of others when it is clear they are not.

    Our customers do many things with the domain names they buy from us, and as a business:
    • We have nothing against people who profit from domain names.
    • We have nothing against .au direct registrations.
    • We support and encourage free enterprise.
    • We do not support fear mongering of any kind especially when it is being driven by an undeclared interest masquerading as another.
    Your mate @snoopy opened a Pandora's box by stating that all of the good .au domain names are gone. Where exactly have they gone?

    If he was genuinely concerned that the public would not have access to these "good" domain names, why are you both so opposed to a ban on monetisation of .au direct registrations for the first couple of years?

    You have both claimed for months that you represent the interests of small businesses and individual registrants, now is the time to prove it!
     
    angelogiuffrida likes this.
  10. snoopy

    snoopy Membership: VIP

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    That isn't what I said.

     
  11. snoopy

    snoopy Membership: VIP

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    The issue is actually your conflicting stance, you have one stance on Whirlpool about "squatters" and a completely different one here.

    I think Angelo has made these slurs to try and curry popularity for your position on direct registrations at Whirlpool, whilst at Dntrade it is a different story because you actually want those people's business.
     
  12. Cheyne

    Cheyne Membership: Community

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    So what exactly are you saying?

    You said that there won't be any good names available to the public, which means they have to already be registered. Correct?

    And saying that it will just be a mirror of existing registrations also means that they are no longer available because they are already registered as .com.au. Correct?

    So let me ask the question again: Where have all the good domain names gone? Who exactly has them?

     
    angelogiuffrida likes this.
  13. DomainNames

    DomainNames Membership: Community

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    "We have nothing against people who profit from domain names." Cheyne
    V
    "the problem is that many of them have been squatted by people trying to profit." Angelo

    "we should look to ban monetisation of direct .au for 3-5 years after it officially launches." Angelo

    "At worst they will need to spend less than $100 every two years to buy another domain name if they even want it. That's the extent of it." Angelo


    "perhaps it is a money grab by those concerned" Angelo
     
  14. DomainNames

    DomainNames Membership: Community

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    Who made money from them being registered and renewed? auDA, Ausregistry, Registrars.... Now biting the hands that fed and feed them...

    Attacking your own customers, existing .au domain name registrant customers and consumers and anyone against the proposed competing .au extension ... A strange business tactic.

    The facts are and records show for too long the auDA Board was "Supply Stacked" on both Supply and Demand.. Now they are jumping up and down their money grab for another .au extension may be stopped.

    Now they are getting very personal against people against their cash grab and coming out of the woodwork to do it..

    PUBLIC AUDA BOARD MINUTES 2007 https://www.auda.org.au/about-auda/our-org/board-meetings/2007/070416/1

    Board Minutes - 16 April 2007

    Public Version
    Meeting of the .au Domain Administration Board

    16 April 2007 - 1.00pm
    .au Domain Administration Limited. 1 Queens Road. Melbourne VIC 3004

    Present:
    Chris Disspain, David Goldstein, Julie Hammer, Kim Heitman, Cheryl Langdon-Orr, Jo Lim, Bennett Oprysa, Josh Rowe, Peter Shilling and Tony Staley

    Teleconference:
    Marty Drill and Brett Fenton

    Observers:
    Craig Ng (Maddocks), John Higgins (Hayes Knight), Brenton Thomas, Don Williams and Paul Szyndler (DCITA)

    "The board discussed a paper drafted by CN outlining possible changes to the auDA Constitution to address three issues:

    1. potential supply side capture of demand class
    2. supply related person standing as a demand class director
    3. related entities holding multiple supply class memberships.


    The board also noted the importance of achieving a fair and reasonable balance between supply and demand,
    obesrving that there will always be a tendency for demand class to be under-represented.

    The board agreed changes to address issues 2 and 3 above, as proposed in paras 4.2, 4.4 and 4.5 of the board paper.

    It was decided that the change proposed in para 4.3 of the board paper to address issue 1 may not be effective, and further consideration should be given to options for increasing demand class membership and making it more representative.

    Motion (proposed JR, seconded Julie H): That the proposed new definition of ‘Supply Related Person’ and proposed amendments to clauses 9.4 and 18.3 be put to members at an EGM. Carried unanimously.

    Action: The board to set up a sub-committee to consider demand class membership issues."
     
  15. Cheyne

    Cheyne Membership: Community

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    Perhaps this is where we are getting each other confused. You seem to be taking the word "squatters" in a negative context, but to us it is simply a more commonly used term (especially for the Whirlpool audience) for people who monetise domain names that has neither a positive nor negative connotation.

    I've asked him to change that wording as it seems to have some undertone that neither of us seem to be aware of, but irrespective of that let's go back to the questions that I asked which you have both failed to answer.

    1. Where have all the good domain names gone, since you said they will not be available in .au?

    2. If it will help to free up "good" domain names for the small businesses and individual registrants that you claim to represent, why are you opposed to a discussion regarding a ban on monetisation of .au direct registrations in the first 3-5 years?

     
    angelogiuffrida likes this.
  16. snoopy

    snoopy Membership: VIP

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    I'm saying exactly what I posted. Whatever policy AUDA comes up with there will be no "good" domains available for the public. This is not about more inventory being available, it is simply about mirroring, selling drive.au to the current owner of drive.xxx.au, money.au sold to money.xxx.au.

    I suspect some people think "good" names will become available under this proposal, that won't happen. Jimmy from down the street will get nothing. He may get sold the .au version of his .com.au (which he'll have to pay for) and that will be a booby prize.


    They went 15-20 years ago, owned by corporates, small businesses, domainers.
     
  17. Cheyne

    Cheyne Membership: Community

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    So what Angelo said was not incorrect, just worded poorly (which has already been fixed). Thank you for clarifying that.

    Now, would you care to answer the question that Angelo posed to you on the Whirlpool forums: Why don't you go after them?
     
    angelogiuffrida likes this.
  18. snoopy

    snoopy Membership: VIP

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    Go after corporates, small business and domainers? Why? On the basis of what?
     
  19. Cheyne

    Cheyne Membership: Community

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    Corporate and small businesses typically use domain names they register as part of their operations. They generally don't keep paying for domain names they are not actively using.

    So if your genuine concern is there being no good .au domain names available to the general public, why would you not back Angelo's suggestion of preventing monetisation in .au for a couple of years?

    Neither of us are saying that this is the best way, but you posed a problem so we're simply looking at potential solutions and it should be discussed.

    It doesn't need to be a fight, you and Sean turned it in to one. We want what's best for everybody.
     
    angelogiuffrida likes this.
  20. snoopy

    snoopy Membership: VIP

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    There will never be "good" domains available just like there are no silver coins lying in the street. They need to be bought, otherwise just register something usable which can easily be done.

    Even then these new domains are basically damaged goods much like .xyz, .biz, .melbourne, .uk, .mobi. There is no uptake, usage near zero. .Au is not comparable to .com.au, it's the NQR version of it because it looks like a typo.

    .co versus .com
    .au versus .com.au

    Same old stuff.

    Angelos proposal would just result in blank web pages, it's pointless.