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My first, percieved, 'need to know' question.

Discussion in 'Newbies' started by Zachorazor, Mar 2, 2013.

  1. Zachorazor

    Zachorazor Membership: Community

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    Hi.

    I tried posting this as a reply in another thread, but I'm a first class noob in many aspects and am not sure if it will be read there, so, apologies, but I thought it might be wiser to post it as a new thread in the 'Newbies' section.

    This is the fundamental question I have about securing .com.au names for resale, and I was wondering if someone could, perhaps, definitively answer it for me?

    I've read the published regulations under auDA policies and have seen it said elsewhere that an exact or similar match to a sole trader's name or a registered business name are not the only possible prerequisites for legitimately registering a .com.au extension.

    I've read that domains can still be registered with this extension if they 'have a close and substantial connection' with your business type (and name), but that examples of Close and Substantial Connections actually include:
    a product that your business manufactures or sells; or
    a service that your business provides; or
    an event that your business organises or sponsors; or
    an activity that your business facilitates, teaches or trains; or
    a venue that your business operates; or
    a profession that your business' employees practise.

    So does this mean I could have a registered business name of, say, businesscents.com.au but because I also provide a consultancy service, I could legitimately register businessconsultancy.com.au instead or as well? This would seem to be suggested by the examples presented above. Similarly if the business sold a product called, 'tidybiz' would it be acceptable to auDA to register tidybiz.com.au under the current regulations? Or if my employees practice sales seminars, would that allow for legitimate registration of sales.com.au (as if, but you probably get the point and then some)?

    What I'm trying to ultimately discern is, are business owners allowed to register multiple domain names that are often - due to the principles provided in the examples set out above - not exact or similar matches to the business or sole trader name registered?

    If not, this, as far as I can discern, would mean that the only people able to trade .com.au names are those who have actually run a business utilising an exact or similar domain name, and have decided to cut their losses and sell off the one or two, they have been allowed to register. Is this correct?

    Or do business owners have the latitude, suggested above to register more, and more varied .com.au domain names, for trading, on sites like netfleet?

    Sorry for the long message, but I need this info sorted in my head prior to being able to move forward at all with .com.au name trading.

    Thanks a heap, if you have the time to help me understand this aspect of the process. I don't want to ever engage in any action that might be deemed inappropriate under the auDA guidelines.

    Kind regards,

    Zach
     
  2. eBranding.com.au

    eBranding.com.au Membership: VIP

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    auDA Member:
    Yes
    The 'close and substantial connection' aspect is pretty broad in practice and I'm not aware of cases where they've actually enforced this principle against someone who registered a domain outside of the definitions/examples of relatedness.

    Buying and selling domains can be a business in itself, in which case a premium, saleable name would have a close connection to the operations of your business.

    Basically it's pretty easy to draw a connection between a name and most business operations.
     
  3. johno69

    johno69 Membership: VIP

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    auDA Member:
    Yes
    Everyone seems to do it, but i'd refrain from saying it in an open forum.

    http://www.auda.org.au/policies/auda-2011-03/

    Check the note after section 3b
     
  4. eBranding.com.au

    eBranding.com.au Membership: VIP

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    auDA Member:
    Yes
    Please ignore my example given this:
    Please Note: Under the Domain Name Eligibility and Allocation Policy Rules for Open 2LDs, a registrant may not register a domain name for the sole purpose of resale or transfer to another entity. Where a registrant is found to have breached this policy rule, auDA reserves the right to cancel the domain name licence and delete the domain name.

    Thanks Johno
     
  5. Zachorazor

    Zachorazor Membership: Community

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    Loud and clear. Thanks.

    Thank you both for your replies. The note under section 3b is crystal clear. I apologise for not properly absorbing all sections of this document before posting. I do intend to fully comply with all auDA regulations, and believe I will be, but was curious given the size of the .com.au marketplace that exists.

    Thanks again.

    Zach.
     
  6. neddy

    neddy Membership: VIP

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    auDA Member:
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    Hi Zach - firstly welcome. :)

    Secondly, these issues have been canvassed many times on DNT by new and old members alike.

    In simple terms, 3(b) is not the be it and end all of auDA policy.

    A lot of domain owners / domainers fall under "Domain Monetisation". This has different rules as to what complies and what doesn't (in terms of achieving a "close and substantial" connection).

    You need to read this: Guidelines on the Interpretation of Policy Rules for Open 2LDs (2012-05) In particular, read all of Clause 11.

    The last bit is probably the most important:

    Hope that helps.

    Cheers, Ned
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2013
  7. Zachorazor

    Zachorazor Membership: Community

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    Much appreciated

    Thanks Ned. I will read that.

    Kind regards,

    Zach.
     
  8. Honan

    Honan Membership: VIP

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    auDA Member:
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    Omg , AUDA are full of shit
    Domain monetitisation used as a cover for cyber squatting
     
  9. Zachorazor

    Zachorazor Membership: Community

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    I saw this differently.

    Uh... Thanks for the input. I'm not sure I came anywhere close to that conclusion when I read the clarifications of the guidelines, though. It seems to me that the auDA are still putting good intentions into good practice wherever possible.

    There are very specific characteristics assigned to the practice of cybersquatting, and the AUDA clarifications concerning monetization still preclude these; even quite explicitly towards the end of the document.

    Happily, this document shows that the auDA does allow for the latitude of registering domain names that may be associated with business products, services, and practices, that do not have to be near or exact matches to the business name though. Which was the essence of my original query.

    This is good news, as it allows businesses to optimize their web presence, while also meaning that if a business finds that it has to let go of a domain or two, it can, without losing all of its stake in the market. That's my interpretation, at least.

    Thank you to all who helped me find this answer to my initial enquiry, which began this thread.

    Kind regards,

    Zach
     
  10. neddy

    neddy Membership: VIP

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    auDA Member:
    Yes
    Zach, don't worry about Honan. His posts generally contain either dry humour; or are made when he is medicated - or a combination of both. :D

    The fact is many people in Australia both buy and sell domain names. It is a permitted activity, as long as you don't buy for the SOLE purpose of resale.

    A lot of people also interpret this rule the wrong way. It was mainly put in place to stop people registering someone's business name or trademark and then trying to flog it straight away back to them or their competitors. (Which is fair enough).

    I am not a domain developer. My business model has been to buy and ultimately sell, but each domain of mine is parked from the beginning with companies like Fabulous and Rook. So I earn a little income along the way until the domain is ultimately sold.

    This is perfectly legitimate under current auDA policies.

    If you ever need clarification on anything, make contact privately with people like Erhan from Cooper Mills; or David Lye (DavidL on DNT) - or many others including myself. We're all happy to help.

    Best wishes for your future success.

    Cheers, Ned
     
    1 person likes this.
  11. johno69

    johno69 Membership: VIP

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    auDA Member:
    Yes
    I can confirm this too. auDA have emailed me and said it's totally fine to buy a domain on the drops and then plant a for sale sign on it 2 hours later.

    Of course as long as your intention when purchasing was not to resell it.
     
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  12. neddy

    neddy Membership: VIP

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    auDA Member:
    Yes
    Paul, I had the benefit of being on the auDA Advisory Panel last year, and I raised this issue with the "powers that be".

    I did so because I'm a domainer - I buy with the intention of parking and getting a bit of income along the way - but my ultimate aim is resale. I didn't want to keep operating under the perceived basis of "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" - we can all get away with it.

    And auDA are absolutely fine with that - provided dubious conduct (as mentioned in previous post) is not exhibited. That is what the "SOLE" purpose refers to.

    Just as a matter of interest for anyone that cares, auDA does take note of "conduct". If you're someone who gets a lot of complaints from people who allege "cybersquatting" type activities, then you get on their radar. Not a good place to be. ;)

    But if the complaints aren't justified, then you have nothing to worry about. At the AGM I asked a question in relation to this, and was told that many, many complaints don't even get past first base, simply because they are without merit. I think Vanessa and the team do a great job on this.

    Cheers, Ned
     
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  13. Zachorazor

    Zachorazor Membership: Community

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    Clarity and transparency are comforting.

    Thanks Ned, both for the link to the monetization guidelines and for keeping me enlightened regarding what can and cannot be done. Also thank you for your referrals and your own offer of support. This has been, apart form the odd divergent post, the most professional and collegial post I've read, let alone been a part of.


    Glad to know there are more live options and business models involved in this field than I, at first, thought.

    Also, thanks to johnno69, for your knowledge, shared.

    Kind regards,



    Zach
     
  14. Blue Wren

    Blue Wren Membership: VIP

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    Great info guys; thanks.
     
  15. Honan

    Honan Membership: VIP

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    auDA Member:
    Yes
    Zach,
    They do have to be exact matches to the product monetized by the web site.
    For example, a domain monetizer might register WaggaShoes.com.au
    It is only permitted to monetize shoes made or sold in Wagga
    That is why I make such comments
    And why should trade in .com.au be stifled by the restriction that it is only for business people.?
    Everyone is too scared of a complaint being lodged against one of their domains to voice their true opinion.
    I hope Ned was trying to be funny in his reference to me
     
  16. neddy

    neddy Membership: VIP

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    auDA Member:
    Yes
    Honan's initial point is a good one, and perhaps worth expanding on for the sake of new and old members alike.

    Firstly though, I do not hold myself out as an expert on auDA policy - but over the past few years I have tried to get a good understanding of "policy" and "requirements" by getting involved with auDA working groups and panels (as have others on DNT). I did so because auDA policy affects my livelihood.

    I don't like some of auDA's policies and restrictions - in particular I think the "domain monetisation" aspect is downright bad. But it's what we have, and until it gets changed, we've all got to live with it. (There have been some significant changes over the past few years). A lot of people hate many of ASIC's rules and regulations too!

    So if domain owners want change; or want to criticize; at least become members of auDA so you can have input. It only costs $22 a year, and you can drink more than that at their Christmas function! ;)

    Info on becoming a member

    List of current members

    Back to Honan's point:

    • auDA is a complaints driven organisation. The only time you will ever have a problem with any domain is if someone makes a complaint based on policy.

    • The example given is technically correct. So if a complaint comes in about a domain name, and you are claiming a "close and substantial connection" via domain monetisation, your content and ad links are supposed to be relevant.

    • These days though, auDA generally allows you time to fix any problem should a complaint be made. A mate of mine (and member here) had a problem with waggaairport.com.au. Someone tried to buy it; were rebuffed, and then made a complaint. His site was redirected to domestic.com.au - and had no actual content about Wagga Airport. So he fixed it within 7 days, and auDA were satisfied.
     
  17. petermeadit

    petermeadit Membership: VIP

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    auDA Member:
    Yes
    Great discussion.

    Yes I feel the policies and rules of any organisation will never be perfect. I do feel that auDA has struck a good balance of both legislation and application.

    What I mean by this is that written policy needs to come from a protective aspect for the benefit of the community in general. Whereas application of the policies need to take into account the practical aspects of individual and unique situations.

    The dealings I have had with the auDA have delivered outcomes that are both fair and practical. Might I add efficient.

    Every organisation has these challenges, and it is how they conduct themselves that defines them.



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