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moving my names out and why

Discussion in 'VentraIP.com.au' started by DomainNames, Oct 19, 2017.

  1. DomainNames

    DomainNames Membership: Community

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    Good to read the position changes of Ventraip.. You said in a forum statement you will pass on any decrease in the wholesale.au price which is great. But then I read this today by Angelo so it is good to have your position in black and white.
    http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2672195#r54813458

    "User #294894 2183 posts
    Angelo Giuffrida
    VentraIP Australia

    Service Provider
    reference: whrl.pl/Re06hM
    posted 2017-Oct-19, 12:15 pm AEST

    So what side are the people commenting in this thread in? I don't see a single comment from anyone happy about this proposal aside from you.

    This thread has had a grand total of six different people make comments, most of whom are simply questioning the mechanism not the merits.

    The threads on DNTrade have the same four or five people commenting.

    I'm sorry, but this is a non-issue for 'everyday Australians'. At worst they will need to spend less than $100 every two years to buy another domain name if they even want it. That's the extent of it.

    Your interest in this is purely to prevent auDA, the registry operator, and registrars from making money. The proof is in the pudding when reading your current DNTrade signature which says "Have your say on the .AU Cash Grab!". And I'm not saying you're wrong, perhaps it is a money grab by those concerned, but what I take issue with is people pretending to be some sort of ambassador for the "everyday Australian" when it's simply a case of not being in a position to profit.

    Everyday Australians do not want this proposal in my view.

    This statement sounds like it came from the desk of a politician, and we all know how much they genuinely care about the 'everyday Australian'.

    Cheers,
    Angelo"


    Maybe you need to open your mind to the existing .au registrants valid opinions and the fact most have not been informed properly by auDA or the auDA Board
    Expect my call today to move all of my .au Ventraip business to someone else... it is small with you but as a long time customer I am disappointed you clearly do not want to listen to .au registrant consumers concerns and yes there will be more than 5 or 6 people complaining now!
     
  2. DomainNames

    DomainNames Membership: Community

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    Left a message for Angelo at the Ventraip office. My domain transfers are now underway to another company.

    Sorry to say goodbye but Angelo's public comments on Whirlpool appear to not care about what .au registrant consumers are saying and this is not what I expect from someone I pay money to.

    Good motivation to move anyway as it's cheaper to register and renew the .au names with others now anyway instead of VentraIP so thanks Angelo for the motivation :)
     
  3. snoopy

    snoopy Membership: VIP

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    I did treasure this moment of truth from Angelo,

    "perhaps it is a money grab by those concerned"
     
    DomainNames likes this.
  4. DomainNames

    DomainNames Membership: Community

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    How about this one?
    "At worst they will need to spend less than $100 every two years to buy another domain name if they even want it. That's the extent of it." Angelo Giuffrida VentraIP Australia Service Provider
     
  5. snoopy

    snoopy Membership: VIP

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    I'll treasure that moment as well.
     
    DomainNames likes this.
  6. DomainNames

    DomainNames Membership: Community

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    all names moved now.
     
  7. Andrew Wright

    Andrew Wright Membership: VIP

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    auDA Member:
    Yes
    Where did you go?
     
  8. Cheyne

    Cheyne Membership: Community

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    Hi DomainNames,

    I'm very confused as to why you've quoted Angelo's Whirlpool forum post here? If you think he is somehow going to be ashamed of what he has said then you are sadly mistaken.

    If you have chosen to move your domain names away from us to another registrar simply because you do not agree with our position on direct registrations, which as he explained is encumbered upon us regardless of what our personal positions may be, then you are simply cutting off your nose to spite your face.

    Allow me to paint a picture for you.

    Of the top 5 .au registrar groups, the top 3 being MelbourneIT Group (which includes NetRegistry, TPP Wholesale and UberGlobal), Crazy Domains and GoDaddy, are all publicly listed and hold more than 72% of the existing .au market share. They all want a return for their shareholders which means by default they all want direct registrations to happen. Nothing you or I do or say will change this fact.

    So even if we were to take the noble stand of being against direct registration, as the number 4 with single-digit market share and no representation on the board, it makes absolutely no difference to the overall outcome. But then when it does happen and we offer them to our customers (because we would have to in order to remain competitive) we look like complete hypocrites when we take peoples money for something we campaigned against.

    Take note: We are not like those companies. We do not have hundred-of-millions-of-dollars behind us. We do not have teams of people who can run mass-scale marketing campaigns across multiple media platforms. We do not have the capital to even consider acquiring any of those above us.

    But on the flip side they all have the ability to buy us out, and if they did, the number 4 becomes Tucows, another non-Australian publicly listed company, and after that is Enetica which is about to be sold (most likely overseas) as well.

    It's a very grim picture which is why I believe that this market needs us. We have remained fiercely independent in the face of some staggering offers which may ultimately come back to bite us on the ass and I assure you is worth more to us than any proceeds from direct registrations will ever generate.

    As Angelo has already stated and which I also personally agree with, our issue with direct registration and more so the .au namespace in general is the fact that more than 90% of the revenue generated from .au domain name sales goes to overseas interests. The sale of AusRegistry to Neustar should never have been allowed because instantly 75% of the .au domain name fee went overseas. The top 3 registrar groups all outsource the bulk of their operations and many have other overseas interests. But the damage has been done and it is largely irreparable.

    On the other hand, we are a massive advocate of keeping everything in Australia and we employ 38 local team members who provide all of our customers with 24/7 local support. We give them the best working conditions in the industry with an on-site gym, cafe/bar, games area, theatre, and laundry on top of many other perks which are all provided completely free of charge. We keep our money here. We pay tax here. And we are exceptionally proud of what we do and how we do it.

    I hope that you reconsider your views and choose to support us regardless of whether or not we agree on this issue.

    Kind regards,

    Cheyne Jonstone
    Executive Chairman
    VentraIP Australia - Synergy Wholesale - Zuver Hosting & Domains
     
    Tom, Lemon, Shane and 3 others like this.
  9. DomainNames

    DomainNames Membership: Community

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    Before you posted you should have spoken to Angelo as I did. This post is now linked to this one with answers provided.
    https://www.dntrade.com.au/threads/aliababa-5-99-com.11642/#post-89094

    I believe I was right in saying Angelo expressed to me on the phone his concerns with foreign competition and foreign ownership plus the amount of money going to auDA and Golden Gate Capital USA ( Neustar and Ausregistry) and what was left for you... no use complaining to us!

    Your fight if may I suggest is not with your paying customers such as myself ( with over $20,000 AUD still in credit with another of your associated companies) but with who is making the bulk of the money from wholesale .au registration pricing. That is Icann, auDA, auDA Foundation and Golden Gate Capital USA etc. If you have a problem with Crazy Domains, Godaddy, Uniregistry stand up to them and tell them... at the auDA AGM or wherever you choose including on Whirlpool.

    I asked Angelo if it was true he may stand for the auDA Board and he advised me he will decide this week.
     
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  10. DomainNames

    DomainNames Membership: Community

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    https://www.dntrade.com.au/threads/...ners-domainers-monetisation.11692/#post-90127

    http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2685777#r55224622
    User #294894 2210 posts
    Angelo Giuffrida
    VentraIP Australia

    Service Provider
    reference: whrl.pl/Re3cwO
    posted 2017-Dec-7, 4:36 pm AEST
    Compared to .com, there are plenty of "good" names still available in .au, but the problem is that many of them have been squatted by people trying to profit. Why don't you go after them too?

    If we want to guarantee that names remain available then we should look to ban monetisation of direct .au for 3-5 years after it officially launches.

    There is no obligation for any existing registrant to take the .au domain name, much the same as there was no obligation for every florist to take their name in .florist, or vets to take their name in .vet, or lawyers to take their name in .lawyer or .legal or .attorney.

    Every web site only has one primary address which is used on letterheads, marketing collateral, and essentially it doesn't matter what that name is used because people are more and more these days relying on search and companies are using the tag line "search <name>" or "search <product>" instead of a domain name or phone number."

    More reasons why I made the right decision to my my business to other registrars.
    1. Other registrars have a lower price
    2. Unlike Ventrap/ Synergy Wholesale the other registers are not slagging of people who monetise names or people who are domain name investors.. The very people who built the .au namespace at the start before Ventraip and Synergy Wholesale even existed!

    I can only think some people in "supply" have joined forces to try and ram through the proposed competing .au extension.. .. and they think this direct attack on .au domain name consumers, Resellers, Domainers, Monetisers will help their cause... think again!

    You are shooting yourselves in the foot guys!
     
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  11. Cheyne

    Cheyne Membership: Community

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    Excellent for them. We prefer to support Australian jobs and the Australian economy by providing 24/7 Australian support and we are priced accordingly. I make no apologies for this.

    If you choose to not support Australian jobs and the Australian economy then that is totally your choice and I respect that decision.

    Let's just look at the facts here.

    There are more people in both the industry and the general public who view domain monetisation as a far bigger problem than .au direct registrations.

    You and your mate snoopy like to go around saying that you represent small business owners and everyday registrants who will be forced to pay a tax when (not if) .au direct registrations are available, yet you are happy to campaign for and actively endorse now sitting auDA board member Ned O'Meara who admitted just two weeks ago that he effectively taxed small business owners 'four figure' sums for two domain names that he had in his portfolio.

    Don't take my word for it: https://www.domainer.com.au/a-rainbow-opportunity/

    I am not suggesting for a second that Ned has done anything wrong here. His business is domain names and if he was able to sell those names for a profit then good on him. Is there a potential conflict of interest with him being on the board? Not for me to judge, but I hope that during discussions relating to the registry and other similar matters he excuses himself the same way George did.

    But the sheer hypocrisy coming from people like you and Snoopy who applaud small business owners being taxed by domainers to the tune of thousands of dollars yet claim to be placard holders fighting for the same people who you say will be forced in to buying another domain name is simply outrageous and exposes your true agenda for all to see.

    Let me make this clear so that you cannot misquote me:
    • We have nothing against people who profit from domain names.
    • We have nothing against .au direct registrations.
    • We support and encourage free enterprise.
    • We do not support fear mongering of any kind especially when it is being driven by an undeclared interest masquerading as another.
    Thank you for your business in the past, I hope you return at some point in the future.
     
    Lemon, angelogiuffrida and Mick like this.
  12. ttfan

    ttfan Membership: Community

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    I would agree with that in principle. However I don't think there is ANYONE on the board who does NOT have a vested interest in one form or another... so how would Ned be any different to all the others?

    So IF we assume that all members have a vested interest of some sort, is it better to have board members that all agree with the current decisions, or is it better to have board members with a variety of (opposing) points of view so that opposing views are discussed?
     
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  13. Cheyne

    Cheyne Membership: Community

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    I think this is a conversation for another thread, but I was simply saying that if George (and from what I've heard Gavin) were both required to excuse themselves from certain discussions then I would hope this would continue based on declared interests.
     
  14. DomainNames

    DomainNames Membership: Community

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    "Let's just look at the facts here.

    There are more people in both the industry and the general public who view domain monetisation as a far bigger problem than .au direct registrations." Cheyne

    Are you serious? Claiming that as fact is a joke I hope? Why keep shooting yourself the your company reputation in the foot?

    Every country and extension in the world allows parking and monetisation. Most did from day 1. auDA old policy was a failure with not even landing pages but dead domain names sitting useless.

    Monetisation helps advertisers and the economy.

    auDA changed the rules on monetisation to catch up with the rest of the world..Do you want auDA and the .au namespace to actually go backwards? Less registrations, Less renewals? Less investment? Less promotion of the .au namespace?

    Numerous Supply Registrars, Resellers and even past present auDA Board members have monetised .au domain names themselves!​
     
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  15. DomainNames

    DomainNames Membership: Community

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    "Let's just look at the facts here.

    There are more people in both the industry and the general public who view domain monetisation as a far bigger problem than .au direct registrations." Cheyne

    Some people need some further education on Domain Name Monetisation it seems.

    auDA had to scramble to catch up to the world on monetisation. Going backwards to ban monetisation ion the .au namespace would be a disaster to the .au namespace and the Australian economy and to the Domain Supply industry. Suggesting it is not just crazy it raises questions what global experience with monetisation some people have even suggesting it.

    https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...x-b&gfe_rd=cr&dcr=0&ei=USIqWon4EsXN8gfy_Z7YBQ

    https://www.auda.org.au/blog/domain-monetisation-policy-explained-2/
    https://www.auda.org.au/search/result/?Search=monetisation

    USA spelling is Monetization with the Z
    https://www.google.com.au/search?sa......0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..2.0.0....0.6v49HiocR_0
     
  16. DomainNames

    DomainNames Membership: Community

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    Without people investing in domain names and creating the value in them via things like "monetisation" the Supply side would not be where it is today. There would be far less registrations, far less renewals and far less money for Supply...

    Please think about it a little more and even read what the majority on the supply side has done to also promote and bring in monetisation globally.

    Did you know some Supply entities registrars make money of the monetisation themselves when names are registered and the name servers with the registrar name servers and their own monetisation techniques?

    https://www.smartcompany.com.au/entrepreneurs/influencers-profiles/ausregistrys-domaination/

    Are people buying a lot more domain names than they actually use? What trends are you seeing just in the domain name?
    When we first came into it there was a profitable little business called domain monetisation, and what that is is where people buy up portfolios of names and they try to make them relevant and generic. What they’re hoping for is for people to directly type those names into their browser. What they then do is present advertisements, usually from Google, on those ads, and people click through to go to where they want to go. So every time people click through they just get a couple of cents here, a couple of cents there.

    But some of these guys on the global market, and it happens more so in the .com name space, are marking hundreds of thousands of dollars a day through their domain portfolios.

    But they own 700,000 and in some cases millions of domain names in order to do this.

    There’s also the auctioning of domain names. People now see it that there is an intrinsic value in their domain name. Now rather than just let it expire, they’ll renew and try to sell it, potentially at auction, and there is a lot of interest in these domains depending on how much traffic they had going to them before."
     
  17. snoopy

    snoopy Membership: VIP

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    I'd say 2/3 of the industry is against direct registrations. Where are all these industry people who see monetisation as a big problem?
     
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  18. Cheyne

    Cheyne Membership: Community

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    So you do not support small businesses and individual registrants after all!

    Excellent, thank you for clearing that up.
     
  19. Cheyne

    Cheyne Membership: Community

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    Nobody has suggested that there should be a ban in the .au namespace.

    @snoopy stated on the Whirlpool forums that ALL OF THE GOOD .AU DOMAIN NAMES ARE GONE!

    Angelo put out a QUESTION FOR DISCUSSION that perhaps a 3-5 YEAR ban should apply to ensure that "good" names are available to register.

    If you would like to discuss that question, feel free to do so in the appropriate forum, but Angelo asking a question does not imply, directly nor indirectly, that this is what we want to see happen. We like to discuss options, different views, and garner opinions from different angles, not just a one-sided agenda-driven approach like you seem to have.
     
  20. findtim

    findtim Membership: VIP

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    ventraIP has the best COR in australia i think.

    tim