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Interesting Registrant

I don't know if anyone has noticed but over the past week someone has been buying names under the name of the NAB, if I were a betting man, I would say that this person has nothing to do with the NAB, for example here is a domain from today's drops:

Domain Name callforwarding.com.au
Last Modified 01-May-2016 03:25:12 UTC
Status ok
Registrar Name Netfleet.com.au
Registrant NATIONAL AUSTRALIA BANK LIMITED
Registrant ID ACN 004044937
Eligibility Type Company
Registrant Contact ID NFUTBLLF5S9YS7
Registrant Contact Name Muhamad Adin Arifin
Registrant Contact Email arvcocyber@gmail.com
Tech Contact ID NFFAQUYV6TCPS2ZX
Tech Contact Name Muhamad Adin Arifin
Tech Contact Email arvcocyber@gmail.com
Name Server dns1.netfleet.com.au
Name Server IP 202.191.63.6
Name Server dns2.netfleet.com.au
Name Server IP 180.235.131.172
DNSSEC unsigned

Can anyone shed any light on this ?
 

neddy

Top Contributor
I don't know if anyone has noticed but over the past week someone has been buying names under the name of the NAB, if I were a betting man, I would say that this person has nothing to do with the NAB, for example here is a domain from today's drops:

Domain Name callforwarding.com.au
Last Modified 01-May-2016 03:25:12 UTC
Status ok
Registrar Name Netfleet.com.au
Registrant NATIONAL AUSTRALIA BANK LIMITED
Registrant ID ACN 004044937
Eligibility Type Company
Registrant Contact ID NFUTBLLF5S9YS7
Registrant Contact Name Muhamad Adin Arifin
Registrant Contact Email arvcocyber@gmail.com
Tech Contact ID NFFAQUYV6TCPS2ZX
Tech Contact Name Muhamad Adin Arifin
Tech Contact Email arvcocyber@gmail.com
Name Server dns1.netfleet.com.au
Name Server IP 202.191.63.6
Name Server dns2.netfleet.com.au
Name Server IP 180.235.131.172
DNSSEC unsigned

Can anyone shed any light on this ?
That's a good find Erhan. I think you're spot on.

I did a little digging, and have also written about this on my blog. Whilst it could be total coincidence, some things just don't stack up imho. I think that this situation highlights how easy it is to sign up for an account with someone else's ABN / ACN; and use either a disposable credit / debit card (or potentially even a stolen card).

Given your position, I guess you could ask someone at auDA to check it out (integrity of the .au space and all that!)?
 

findtim

Top Contributor
hows he going to do COR should he sell it?
would it just slip right through ventraip or drop automated COR?
something they should also check perhaps.
tim
 

neddy

Top Contributor
Bruce Tonkin (MelbIT - also a Netfleet Director) agrees that it does look strange on the face of it, and he is going to get it investigated.

I suppose there is an offchance that there may have been an incorrect ABN entered at sign-up (and the form was pre-populated). But that's clutching at straws methinks. ;)
 

Chris.C

Top Contributor
Whilst I know it's against AUDA rules, nonetheless I kind of respect the guys ingenuity in regards to getting around them (I assume he doesn't have an ABN of his own and that is why he has done this).

Makes you wonder if requiring an ABN to register an AU domain is needless administration and bureaucracy given that no one (either registrars or AUDA are holding people to account) and it's my understanding that AUDA doesn't investigate anything that doesn't have an official complaint is filed (which is more expensive to do than the majority of AU domains are worth).

It also makes you wonder if less "obvious" cases of this are prevalent, ie in this case it seems obvious because we wonder why the NAB would buy a domain related to call forwarding, but would have anyone blinded an eye if Muhamad Adin Arifin had of simply done an ABN lookup on the ABR Business site and entered the business details of an SME in the call forwarding or phone industry?

Also makes you if he is really risking anything by registering it in another business's name? Muhamad presumably has the login details to NetFleet, controls the nameservers, the EPP key and the contact details are his name and email address, so for all intents and purposes he owns/controls it...
 

findtim

Top Contributor
i don't think auda have anything to answer for here, just a good case to bring up some good questions, the COR is the next step.
but my question without predudice is if his name was john grifith and he had a better email address would we really be asking these questions?
the only Q would be " why didn't john use an NAB email address" ?
if he is trying to trick anyone he certainly didn't think very long about it.
yes, once he flips it he's goneeeeeeeeeee

tim
 

eg73

Top Contributor
Who knows how many domains out there have been won/sold at auction with false whois information.. not using this thread as an example, but it really makes you wonder.
 
i don't think auda have anything to answer for here, just a good case to bring up some good questions, the COR is the next step.
but my question without predudice is if his name was john grifith and he had a better email address would we really be asking these questions?
the only Q would be " why didn't john use an NAB email address" ?
if he is trying to trick anyone he certainly didn't think very long about it.
yes, once he flips it he's goneeeeeeeeeee

tim
that was what caught my eye, the fact that a NAB email address wasn't used, why would you use gmail ? Also CSC manage NAB's domains, so it is odd the domain hasn't been transferred to CSC.....
 

snoopy

Top Contributor
A great example of AUDA red tape. People shouldn't have to resort to this kind of thing to get a domain. The only party to benefit from this will be Netfleet who little doubt won't give him an opportunity to fix it up, they'll hit the delete button and collect another auction fee.
 

helloworld

Top Contributor
Good timing for this thread. As an SEO I am always looking at domains, who registered them etc. As some here may know, a dropped domain with links pointing to it can be a powerful tool in the SEOs handbook (not a legit tactic fyi). With overseas domains the SEOs will either make up a name or hide the whois. When looking at a website recently, it was an obvious attempt at manipulating the search engine albeit a very good one. However, after looking at the DNS, which I do often, it was pretty clear that an SEO had grabbed an ABN...Anyones and registered this perth website to a plumber in country NSW. I noticed similar lookups on other domains.

Since there is no way to police this AUDA should just drop the requirement from ABN to Australian. I think dropping the ABN requirement could potentially increase .com.au values as well, or here is to hoping....
 

neddy

Top Contributor
Since there is no way to police this AUDA should just drop the requirement from ABN to Australian. I think dropping the ABN requirement could potentially increase .com.au values as well, or here is to hoping....
Having been a part of the Names Panel, I can tell you that the Final Report to the auDA Board did in fact recommend that Australian citizens and/or residents be eligible to register an .au domain without having an ABN. Even though I was part of the minority report, I very much support this.

(Obviously, the final implementation model will be subject to approval by the auDA Board).

This segment is from Page 8:

As indicated in Attachment A, the eligibility criteria for direct registrations would be divided into
those with a verifiable official registration (eg. ABN, ACN, TM etc) and those based on registrant
warranty in the first instance (eg. Australian citizen or resident). The allocation criteria would include
“exact match, abbreviation or acronym”, as well as the “close and substantial connection” rule which
encompasses a broad range of allowable activities, including domain monetisation (currently
allowed in com.au and net.au) as well as personal interests or hobbies (currently allowed in id.au).

And then read Attachment "A" (bolding is mine):

A registrant must be:
a) an Australian registered company; or
b) trading under a registered business name in any Australian
State or Territory; or
c) an Australian partnership or sole trader; or
d) a foreign company licensed to trade in Australia; or
e) an owner of an Australian Registered Trade Mark; or
f) an applicant for an Australian Registered Trade Mark; or
g) an association incorporated in any Australian State or
Territory; or
h) an Australian commercial statutory body; or
i) an association incorporated in any Australian State or
Territory; or
j) a political party registered with the Australian Electoral
Commission; or
k) a trade union or other organisation registered under the
Fair Work (Registered Organisations) Act 2009; or
l) a sporting or special interest club operating in Australia; or
m) a charity operating in Australia, as defined in the registrant’s
constitution or other documents of incorporation; or
n) a non‐profit organisation operating in Australia, as defined
in the registrant’s constitution or other documents of
incorporation; or
o) an Australian citizen; or
p) an Australian resident.


Corporate registrant must provide an official identifier (ABN,
ACN, RBN, ARBN, TM).

Sporting/special interest club does not have to provide an
official identifier (warranty‐based).

Individual registrant does not have to provide an official
identifier, but sole trader registrant may choose to provide their
ABN.
 
Last edited:

snoopy

Top Contributor
Having been a part of the Names Panel, I can tell you that the Final Report to the auDA Board did in fact recommend that Australian citizens and/or residents be eligible to register an .au domain without having an ABN. Even though I was part of the minority report, I very much support this.

(Obviously, the final implementation model will be subject to approval by the auDA Board).

This segment is from Page 8:



And then read Attachment "A" (bolding is mine):

I think this is a lot better. Still the main issue is .com.au, maybe if .au had this rule it could prompt change for .com.au. .Com.au is where it could have a big effect on usage.

Even with that rule though there will still be instances where the criteria is too restrictive. Eg I tried to register a .org.au for an unincorporated association about a year ago and was unable to, ended up registering a .org. If I had done a whole lot of appealing I’m sure I could have got it through but who wants to do what when similar alternatives (.org, .com) are a drama free 60 second process?
 

neddy

Top Contributor
I think this is a lot better. Still the main issue is .com.au, maybe if .au had this rule it could prompt change for .com.au. .Com.au is where it could have a big effect on usage.

One would hope that common sense would prevail Snoopy. If and when they do introduce .au; you would hope that equal eligibility would apply across com.au and net.au. It's a no brainer imho.
 

findtim

Top Contributor
equal eligibility would apply across com.au and net.au
how would that go with "speculators" jumping in, given we can almost guarentee if/when it comes in that @ 90% of domain name owners will not know about it or if they do then what to do.
tim
 

snoopy

Top Contributor
how would that go with "speculators" jumping in, given we can almost guarentee if/when it comes in that @ 90% of domain name owners will not know about it or if they do then what to do.
tim

Would guess it is going to be mainly speculators under either eligibility system. Requiring an ABN would reduce registration numbers but it would also reduce those developing sites who would otherwise use a .com.

I suspect the average young person developing an idea from home is probably going to bypass .com.au. They'd have to be pretty serious to go out and get an ABN just to get a domain name.
 

Chris.C

Top Contributor
Ned am I correct in assuming that if AUDA approves Australian citizens or residents owning domains without an ABN, then there would be nothing stopping an international individual buying an Australian domain and owning it until someone challenged their eligibility to own the domain?

Or would registrars need to require that Australian citizens and residents prove their eligibility prior to registering a domain?
 

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