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Buy it now

Discussion in 'Netfleet.com.au' started by findtim, Nov 20, 2013.

  1. findtim

    findtim Membership: VIP

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    auDA Member:
    Yes
    this is just pure feedback nothing else:

    I did a BIN yesterday and won but here is my experience, I am wondering if anyone else has had this?

    so I am bidding on drop, can't see a bid on NF of course, seems someone wants the domain as well as the bidding on drop goes up.

    so I put in a reasonably high bid just to see what happens, they creep up $5, then another $5 and then stop, so we all know they are going to snipe.

    haven't even bothered with NF yet, no point as I can't see anything anyway.

    drop goes up a few more bucks, so I think they are at their top?

    so I finally check NF and it has a "buy it now" which I thought was fair, so I went and bid the BIN, the domain moved up my screen but the buy it now stayed for everyone to see ?

    so I thought? is my computer cached?

    so I went to helenas which computer which isn't and there it was "buy it now" !

    I opened another laptop and still the buy it now is there.

    SOOOOO, finally to my point ( sorry ) but here is what I thought, if I do a buy it now my expectation would be for that to disappear or maybe turn to SOLD but it didn't.

    so because of that what if the person on drop came over to NF and saw buy it now and tried to ? what if they for some reason put in an extra dollar on my BIN ?

    or was I the second person to do the buy it now? so at the end I get told I didn't get it?

    there was just no indication of success, as it was the first time I had done that in the new system I was totally confused, thankfully it all turned out ok but I think there needs to be a change , maybe your screen show fireworks, or some kind of flashing animated gif from the 90's ?

    anyway you get my point.

    so is it just me?

    tim
     
  2. plano

    plano Membership: Community

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    This is your post from three days ago in response to my mention of the BIN price:

    Three days later you are telling us you agreed to pay the BIN price?

    Freaking bizarre.
     
  3. findtim

    findtim Membership: VIP

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    auDA Member:
    Yes
    YEP,
    this time they under valued their BIN

    my previous post still stands true, they over valued their BIN

    tim
     
  4. plano

    plano Membership: Community

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    You are freaking hilarious.

    When the BIN price is more than what "YOU" would pay for the domain name it is overvalued (suckers.com.au, $100,000, pipe DREAM etc. etc.).

    When the BIN price is less than what "YOU" would pay for the domain name it is undervalued (..."so I went and bid the BIN").

    HA HA HA

    Your talents are being wasted giving advice about domain names. You need to try your hand at stand up comedy.
     
  5. plano

    plano Membership: Community

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    OH NO !!! Don't tell us you went and bid the BIN.

    I just got some advice three days ago from someone who gets paid to give advice about domain names.

    He said:

    Oh dear ... "suckers.com.au" ... what have you done?

    Don't bid the BIN ... tell 'em they're dreaming.

    If only you'd read the MANY other threads on DNT you would have known that a BIN price has NO cred.

    Oh well I suppose you have learned your lesson now.
     
  6. Rhythm

    Rhythm Membership: VIP

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    The fact is that wholesale or retail domain valuation is very much hit or miss.
     
  7. findtim

    findtim Membership: VIP

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    auDA Member:
    Yes
    plano: firstly , I LOVE your replies, HONEST. comedy? we should team up !

    if you read a few other recent threads about the common difference between drop and NF and looked at the new BIN's you will see a great difference in domain valuations.

    if you tracked the difference between drop prices and the end result of NF prices you will see that paying less on a NF "created" BIN then you have as a proxy on drop is actually a bloody good idea when someone on drop is going to potentially try to snipe up you, so I sorted myself on drop and purchased BIN on NF.

    everything I have said previously still stands ( man, I have had to say that twice today ! )

    BIN's are still a pipe dream and have no cred . I still stand by that, but will now concede to 99% of BINS are pipe dreams.

    I saw that the bid was going up on drop and thus I grabbed the NF BIN, it was under valued ( in my view) and I paid less then I was prepared to pay, so I didn't learn a lesson, I used what knowledge I have to get the best price for me.

    I wasn't buying for investment, I was buying for development which does make a difference in the amount of money I would pay

    tim
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. jamesrayers

    jamesrayers Membership: Trader

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    Tim, I had a similar experience.

    Down the same path I found (and bid) on a name that I considered NetFleet to have undervalued at BIN price. It subsequently went for a higher price on Drop so this assumption was in some way correct.

    After placing the BIN bid on NF I also expected the domain to disappear from view. Alas it did not. I was presented with information of how the bid works. Multiple bidders allowed, but first bidder wins. Fair enough. But I can't see what they gain from it.

    I'm hopeful this an early experiment for the system. Something NF didn't have the resources to write into the code for phase one.

    That said I cannot see any reason to keep the domain on display. It allows multiple people to bid at BIN and induces fear into the bidders. This fear drives them to Drop.

    Case and point the price at Drop rose above that at NF. And Drop subsequently secured the domain. I still don't know whether the auction price determines the resources allocated to securing that name, but it's possible. In which case the increased bidding at Drop increases their likelihood of securing the domain.

    So if that thought pattern is to be believed, NF in this scenario actually handed Drop more money and a higher chance of securing the domain.

    NF options from here:
    • Overprice the BIN to the extent that nobody would ever compete at the price (based on recent business moves this seems likely)
    • Hide domains after first BIN bid has been placed
     
  9. findtim

    findtim Membership: VIP

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    auDA Member:
    Yes
    great, I am not alone !

    I didn't notice that.

    it would be great to know what that actually means?

    yes, its confusing.

    isn't BIN internationally accepted as BUY IT NOW, ok drop could win it I have no problems with that but multiple people doing BIN ? just doesn't make sense.

    from what I have seen in the last 2 years the bid price has nothing to do with the effort to catch on a day to day basis, but you'd have to suspect something that is heading up to 5 figures is going to somehow be focused on.

    I think a SOLD sign would be better, if I was watching a domain and it disappeared i'd wonder why.

    tim
     
  10. Ash

    Ash Membership: Trader

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    For me, this sums up the value of an auction.

    The competition on Drop made you place a higher value on the domain than you might have if you were just placing a secret bid, and all of a sudden the 'buy it now' price became attractive. If you had not seen any competition you may have still considered the BIN price a pipe dream and put in a lower value secret bid (and potentially lost).

    In my view, Netfleet's platform is now using fear as its main motivator but this has made me change my bidding strategy because fear can work two ways:

    1. Fear of missing out
    2. Fear of paying too much

    Because we have the benefit of two platforms, the 'fear of paying too much' is the stronger of the two for me (unless it's a domain that I really need and can't afford to miss out on, but 9 times out of 10 I can still rationalise missing out.) So now I place my first bid on Drop to gauge if there is any competition and use that as feedback for how I will bid on Netfleet**.

    In general, people aren't very good at determining value so Netfleet have introduced the BIN button in an attempt at price anchoring (a cognitive bias that describes the common human tendency to rely too heavily on the first piece of information offered when making decisions - essentially the same thing as RRP). This is a sound strategy but again, with the benefit of two platforms, I prefer to use the bidding activity on Drop as my pricing anchor.

    So for me, the pschology of the 'Buy It Now' button is an attempt to create a benchmark value for the domain and subsequently drive up your highest price you are willing to pay. It doesn't always work but that's my take on it.

    **Depending on the amount of competition on Drop, sometimes I don't even bother to bid on Netfleet which could be a lost opportunity for NF.

    Ash.
     
  11. findtim

    findtim Membership: VIP

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    auDA Member:
    Yes
    fear is definitely a factor, and my father has always said " fear is a short lived motivator" meaning it has an end point when people just don't care anymore.

    the book "zen and the art of war" says something like " always give your opponent a way out " otherwise they will just go straight thru you.

    in my instance the BIN was below my drop proxy so it was an easy decision, bin is still a myth as only the buyer can decide if it is or not.

    given the current way the NF bin is setup i'd remove it, I wouldn't want to be NF when 2 people BIN and it stays on screen.

    tim
     
  12. johno69

    johno69 Membership: VIP

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    auDA Member:
    Yes
    Call me a skeptic, but with this it really leaves the door open to pick and choose who you sell it too.

    There is no need to leave the bidding open when the BIN has been used.

    I'm not saying this is going on, but who would know if it was or wasn't?
     
  13. findtim

    findtim Membership: VIP

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    auDA Member:
    Yes
    I know, but it would be very easy to test and then it would be very easy to embarrass them, simply sign up a new account or partner with someone, bid the BIN then bid again with a different acount, you would know which bid was placed first.

    there's nothing really to gain is there? if there is a $200 bin who would put in $500?

    I can't see NF opening themselves up to such damage, it would end in an AUda disaster for them.

    I think the bin is safe, just not done right.

    tim
     
  14. Ash

    Ash Membership: Trader

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    What if bidding is quite competitive on Drop.com.au and gets up above $500 and someone feels compelled to put in a higher bid than the $200 BIN on Netfleet as a precautionary measure, but at the same time someone else has already pressed the $200 BIN button - who would win? The person who has submitted a $500 bid or the person who pressed the $200 BIN button first?
     
  15. findtim

    findtim Membership: VIP

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    auDA Member:
    Yes
    exactly what I thought the other day, the fair thing is that there is ONLY ONE product and the first in gets it for the $200.

    in the old NF system I'm pretty sure they stated bins could not be changed once the auction started, correct me if I am wrong

    tim
     
  16. jamesrayers

    jamesrayers Membership: Trader

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    From the NetFleet website:

    Definitely a very informal policy.

    I can't find any more detail on the Buy it Now format in the Terms of Service. It certainly needs to be updated otherwise NF will land themselves in some trouble if an auction goes awry.

    Any complaint to the ACCC at the moment would surely get some traction.

    To speculate further on why BIN domains remain on the list: NF are probably actively looking for bids over the quoted price. By keeping it open they can track these bids and use the data to adjust future BIN prices.

    I can't see them selling above BIN price. It would be catastrophic PR and almost certainly illegal.
     
  17. findtim

    findtim Membership: VIP

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    auDA Member:
    Yes
    jamesrayers, thanks for spending the time to gather that knowledge , yes its online but time is time

    this did not happen to me , thus the issue.

    that's pretty much it in a nutshell, but its not logical when so many domains drop each day

    you have the investor, the developer, the end user, its totally unpredictable.

    once again I think its laughable to put a BIN on something you don't own ? yes I used it but I treated it like a "BIM"

    tim
     
  18. findtim

    findtim Membership: VIP

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    auDA Member:
    Yes
    I just want to make sure we are all clear here as I have got emails about my stance.

    I do not like NF's new system.

    I have ABSOLUTELY no problems with NF staff, I know they are just doing what they think they need to do, doesn't mean I have to be happy with it.

    NOTE: DOUBLE NOTE: this post is from me and only me.

    ------------------

    and thus I will continue to critique the NF process of domain sales how I see it, they should bloody well pay me a wage :D

    --------------

    is it just me or does no one else get it ? does no one else see the future? how the hell can I only have been involved in this in the last 2 years with ALL the experience on dnt around me and nobody types a single word?

    http://screencast.com/t/5vNeGOOD

    218 posts / 7675 views

    get off your arse and post

    prediction: worse is coming, i'm sad, we should be a community but maybe that's the Byron Bay in me?

    you know I LOVED the dnt meetups in bris, syd, melb and I went to all of them, spent the money, airfares, time etc, I was excited.

    I just don't think I have the same view of the industry anymore.

    the more seasoned domainers will say YEP, that's actually what it is !

    :eek:

    tim
     
  19. DomainNames

    DomainNames Membership: Community

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  20. DomainNames

    DomainNames Membership: Community

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    can we see some BUY IT NOW prices again on the drops please?