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Aliababa $5.99 .com

Discussion in 'General Domain Discussion' started by helloworld, Oct 23, 2017.

  1. helloworld

    helloworld Membership: VIP

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    Anyone else see that Alibaba have moved into the industry https://www.alibabacloud.com/domain
    I think this is pretty indicative where we are heading. 10 years from now we're just going to have a handful of registrars and possibly even hosts. Let the race to the bottom begin
     
  2. snoopy

    snoopy Membership: VIP

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    Haven't they been around for years? Especially with new tlds. I don't see much consolidation personally.

    $5.99 as a promotional sale for one domain is nothing amazing either. I type in "domain registration" andI get a 99 cent .com special at godaddy.

    Does show what a bad deal we getting with .com.au though. As far as I know the lowest way to try a .com.au is paying around $20.
     
  3. helloworld

    helloworld Membership: VIP

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    Ok. I didnt actually realise they offered this service in the past.
    I can get my .com.au for $20 on my legacy Aussie HQ account with TPP but im not happy there. Actually Im not happy anywhere tbh. Much prefer the small operator to the large corporate networks.
     
  4. Cheyne

    Cheyne Membership: Community

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    "I actively campaign against auDA because I want to support the .au namespace and the local industry"

    nek minnit...

    "I try and find the cheapest possible price on .com.au registrations, even if it's with an overseas company that offers zero benefit to the local economy and local jobs".

    The hypocrisy here is next-level stuff.

    Kind regards,

    Cheyne Jonstone
    Executive Chairman
    VentraIP Australia - Synergy Wholesale - Zuver Hosting & Domains
     
  5. snoopy

    snoopy Membership: VIP

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    What you talking abot Cheyne?

    Are those quotes coming from somewhere?
     
  6. Cheyne

    Cheyne Membership: Community

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    I'm talking about the fact that you and others here actively encourage people to find the cheapest possible price for .com.au domain names no matter who the source.

    You, more so than most other general punters out there, are well aware that by paying just $20 for a 2 year .com.au domain registration that registrars stand to make just 75 cents!

    75 cents... what can that buy you these days? Not a whole damn lot.

    Since you are so keen to straighten out the industry I very firmly believe that you should be championing local businesses who support the local economy and local jobs, and as an owner of one of those businesses I am telling you that if we are forced to compete for the lowest possible cost there will be no Australian registrars left.

    If you genuinely support .au, then you should support the money staying in AU.

    Kind Regards,

    Cheyne Jonstone
    Executive Chairman
    VentraIP Australia - Synergy Wholesale - Zuver Hosting & Domains
     
  7. snoopy

    snoopy Membership: VIP

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    Maybe if AUDA wasn't charging $5 a registration (money which is wasted and/or stockpiled) and the registry $12 you'd have more of a margin?

    Do you think .au will solve your problems? You'll be making 75 cents on those aswell whilst AUDA and the registry grab all the money.
     
  8. DomainNames

    DomainNames Membership: Community

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    Some questions people need to be discussing which will be raised further in the Government Review and hopefully before it by more people both supply ( registrars and resellers ) and demand ( domain name registrant consumers) etc.

    1. How much does a Registrar make from a $20 ( inc gst? or excluding?), 2 year .au registration. If registrars can make only 75 cents then complain to auDA and Ausregistry about their cut from the money pie, how much do they make, how much is being sent offshore?
    2. How much does Ausregistry/ Neustar/ Golden Gate Capital foreign owners make from the same .au registration?
    3. How much does auDA make from the same .au registration?
    4. How much does Icann make from the same registration?
    5. How much does the auDA Foundation make from the same registration?
    6. When was the last Wholesale .au price reduction by auDA and Ausregistry passed on to the registrars/ resellers so they did have more chance to make some money out of the .au registration pie money?
    7. How much does auDA really need to make from every .au registration. Are there any issues with auDA expenses over the years? They have over $10 million in the bank and a very healthy daily income source coming in so do they overspend the .au registrant consumer income more than they should?
    https://www.righttoknow.org.au/request/au_historical_financial_irregula
    ____
    1. What are the FREE included benefits some wholesale registries offer for domain names?
    2. What are some of the FREE included benefits some registrars offer for domain names. How many Australian registrars can make the same offerings as other global overseas registrars but choose not to?
    3. Is the domain name just a lead in product now. The "loss leader" product to get people to also buy hosting, SSL certificates, email, online stores, etc. The domain name in many cases is sold at a lower cost with the registrar offering other services they make the money off.
    ___________
    https://www.1and1.com/domain-names?__lf=Static#your-domain
    FREE inclusions Included with all Domains
    • Whois privacy is included to secure your personal information
    • 1 email account with 2 GB mailbox space & unlimited email forwarding
    • For each individual domain order you'll receive a free SSL certificate
    • Unlimited subdomains to structure your website
    • Advanced DNS management
    • 24/7 customer support
    • A wide variety of domains, including new domain extensions (like .nyc, .club, .email and more)
    • Secure your domain from hijacking risks with domain lock
    • Special offers for 1&1 customers
    • Multiple year registration
     
    snoopy likes this.
  9. Bacon Farmer

    Bacon Farmer Membership: VIP

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    Shane, there are plenty of Aussie owned supplier supporters here but you'll quickly alienate them if you keep this pissing match going on.
     
  10. Cheyne

    Cheyne Membership: Community

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    Okay, let's do a fair comparison.
    • .com wholesale price is $8.03USD per year, of which $7.85 goes to the registry operator (Verisign) and $0.18 goes to ICANN. When converted to Australian dollars at current market rates (excluding bank currency conversion fees and GST) it comes to $10.28AUD ex GST.

    • .com.au wholesale price is $8.75AUD ex GST per year, of which $7.00 goes to the registry operator (AusRegistry/Neustar) and $1.75 goes to auDA.
    It's immediately clear that on the whole .au domain names are cheaper than their gTLD cousins, but domainers like yourself would argue that they are far less valuable on scale and you would be right simply because the .au aftermarket is minuscule in comparison.

    But what I don't understand from your statement is why you think that auDA and AusRegistry are charging too much? As I have shown, when accurately and fairly compared .au is already cheaper, and if you were to break down the costs of operating a registry in Australia, factoring in all costs such as data centre space, power, bandwidth, hardware, wages and taxes in comparison to those run overseas, you might be surprised to find that it's not quite as profitable an exercise as it may appear.

    Do I think that auDA should take 10 times that of ICANN? Once again, comparing the volume of domains that ICANN take their 18 cents from is way more than 10 times that of auDA, but something that most people agree with is that we all respect the governance of the .au name space (to a certain degree) to ensure that integrity has remained and formed a trusted brand that Australians recognise. Doing that costs money and again I quote that wages, taxes, etc, are all far more than most other parts of the world.

    I realise that this is the long way about answering your question so my short answer is simply "no", because even if auDA and AusRegistry were charging less you would still have overseas-based registrars who unfairly avoid GST charging far less for what is essentially the same product and we would be forced to compete because as has been proven in this market with the rise of registrars like Crazy Domains is that people look at price first and quality of service second.

    Will direct registrations solve my problems? Absolutely not.

    But nobody is solving a problem when they are using forums like this to unmistakably advertise the fact that they would prefer to give their money to registrars like Uniregistry who deliver precisely ZIPPO back to our economy simply because they are cheaper and avoid GST, and in doing so you are no more the answer then anybody else because if direct registrations go ahead you will simply be funneling even more of that money overseas!

    Fact check time. More people in Australia care about outsourced customer service than those who care about .au direct registrations.

    So in my view, worrying about what auDA and AusRegistry do with the money is second to supporting the registrars who do the real work to bring it in to them - and more importantly, those registrars who actually use that revenue to support the local economy through jobs and taxes.

    Kind Regards,

    Cheyne Jonstone
    Executive Chairman
    VentraIP Australia - Synergy Wholesale - Zuver Hosting & Domains
     
  11. Cheyne

    Cheyne Membership: Community

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    I agree with many of the questions you have raised, but like I have said in another post we are a single-digit market share registrar who is the fourth largest yet we have no representation on the board or anywhere else for that matter. I could do cartwheels down Collins Street and it would make absolutely no difference to the status quo.

    But with respect, it is hypercritical for you to question the overseas ownership of the registry operator or other overseas interests when you have openly said on these forums in a highly condescending tone that you have made the decision to move your domain names away from my company to one that is presumably based overseas simply because you don't agree with our stance on direct registrations and in your own words is "cheaper".

    So you're more than happy to send your money to an overseas registrar who contributes nothing to the local economy just to prove a point which is small on the grand scheme of issues you have with the entire establishment, many of which surround the foreign ownership of the registry operator and how much of that money goes overseas? I'm sorry, but that makes no logical sense no matter how you frame it.
     
  12. Cheyne

    Cheyne Membership: Community

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    If people who read this are alienated because I am presenting facts and logical arguments then so be it.

    For too long the handful of people on this forum who have continued their crusade to take down auDA at any cost, under the guise of representing "everyday Australians" when in reality only representing their own vested interests and portfolios, have shown next to no regard for registrars because they don't own one and the majority of the market is cornered by the Big 3 who couldn't care less what these people have to say about auDA.

    I stand firmly and proudly on my belief that the proceeds from all .au domain names should be used to wholly to support the local economy and local jobs, but when people talk about a race to the bottom and using registrars simply because they are cheaper yet they are based overseas and do not support the local economy but at the same time these same people have the audacity to question where the money from registrations go when the registry operator is owned by overseas interests then I feel compelled to call it out.

    I want an open and fair .au like everybody else, but just like everybody else I also want to protect my interests which is that of a registrar.
     
  13. DomainNames

    DomainNames Membership: Community

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  14. DomainNames

    DomainNames Membership: Community

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    Just a side note you probably want to be nicer to some people here who have supported your company. You may be misssing the point on many issues but.

    auDA is under investigation and review. That is fact. Some other things which will be included are;

    • .au pricing
    • wholesale pricing
    • contracts
    • tenders
    • auDA expenses
    • censorship of information
    • foreign ownership
    • risk to Australian Critical Infrastructure
    • memberships and process
    • management
    • staffing
    • consumer rights
    • management of the .au namespace and subcontracting of responsibility for the wholesale registry
    • Government's oversight to date and in the future
    • Board makeup


    You probably need to talk to these people if you have complaints about foreign ownership and foreign competition, how much you make compared to what Ausregistry and auDA make from each .au registration, renewal, COR.
    1. Uniregistry (Cayman Islands?) (Talk to Erhan or Frank)
    2. Crazy Domains ( DreamScape Networks FZ-LLC Dubai?) who have representation on the auDA Board. l
    3. Golden Gate Capital/ Neustar/ Ausregistry Who have representation on the auDA Board https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Gate_Capital http://www.goldengatecap.com/ USA
    4. Icaan USA
    5. Go Daddy USA
    6. Other foreign owned registrars who do not charge GST
    https://firb.gov.au/
    https://www.ag.gov.au/NationalSecurity/InfrastructureResilience/Pages/default.aspx
    https://www.communications.gov.au/what-we-do/internet
    https://www.accc.gov.au/
    http://accan.org.au/
    https://www.aph.gov.au/Senators_and_Members/Parliamentarian?MPID=D2I


    fyi, I still have $20,000 AUD sitting in credit with one of your associated companies for domain name registrations and renewals ... so how was that for support? But seriously you and Angelo risk support attacking .au registrant consumers who are entitled to express more than valid concerns about a lot of issues.
     
  15. snoopy

    snoopy Membership: VIP

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    There is no "$8.75AUD ex GST per year". At minimum a registrant must pay $20 for a .com.au.

    The other problem is .com and .com.au have the same issue, the prices are too high because there has been no competition for the registry operator. You are running Ausregistry's flawed arguments arguing it is ok because it is a similar monopoly to .com.

    Lastly, yes AUDA fees are way too high. This organisation does very little, they are stacking domain owners cash in the bank and wasting money on lawyers, paying out legal claims for all the staff they have wrongfully sacked, flying around the world to conferences, meanwhile consumers still have to contribute to the shonky AUDA Foundation.
     
    DomainNames likes this.
  16. Cheyne

    Cheyne Membership: Community

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    I am very nice to anybody who has supported my business and to suggest otherwise is tantamount to a threat, but just because I have an opinion and I present the facts as I see them doesn't mean that I am in any way ungrateful or unappreciative.

    I don't need to speak to those people because they are not my customers. The people that I need to speak to are the ones who claim to be representatives for the "everyday Australian" yet want services from registrars at the lowest possible cost with no regard for the registrars business. We work bloody hard and do a damn good job at looking after our staff, all for people like yourself who go around sprouting that you take issue with money going to overseas interests yet you moved your own domain names to a registrar that is based in the Cayman Islands?!

    You cannot have your cake and eat it too. If you are genuinely concerned with where the registry fees are going then you need to be just as concerned where your registrar fees are going as well! You have very little say over the registry, but you have 100% of the say when it comes to choosing a registrar.

    Not once have Angelo nor I said that some of your concerns regarding auDA and AusRegistry are not valid. In fact, I've even said that I support some of the issues regarding foreign ownership of the registry operator. But once again I am not attacking anybody, I am simply offering my opinion which comes from a side which is very rarely heard.
     
  17. Cheyne

    Cheyne Membership: Community

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    Please explain why you believe that there is no $8.75AUD ex GST per year? This is the amount I pay as a registrar, and this is what is published on the auDA web site.

    You talk as if the registrar has no right to make money as a business yet we are the ones who spend our time and money developing the systems, employing the staff and ensuring that we are able to provide a solid platform for you to sell your domains from. And if you want to see what happens when there is no competition between registrars then I urge you to cast your mind back to the late 90's.

    When you go and sell a domain name for thousands of dollars you expect the registrar makes 75 cents! That is gluttony in the highest order.

    On what basis are the prices too high? Are you suggesting that because a company that operates a registry turns a profit that instantly they are charging too much? It's called business. We are all in business to make a profit. We are all in business to help secure our personal wealth. You charge your customer, I charge my customer, they charge their customer. It's how the world operates. It's done so long before we were here and will continue to do so long after we're gone.

    I have my own personal views on this that I will not express on a public forum, but I will say that in part I agree with what you are surmising and I believe that there are some pointed questions that need to be answered.

    Having said that, I have always had a fantastic working relationship with auDA and a personal connection to many of the staff over the years even though we have had disagreements over policy and procedure, and I firmly believe that they have in large part done an excellent job of maintaining the integrity of the .au name space over the past 16 years.
     
  18. snoopy

    snoopy Membership: VIP

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    There is no ability to pay "per year",the cost to registrants is $20-$160 for a 2 year registration. *If* AUDA is claiming that it is misleading. Are you sure they are claiming this?

    You are on a tangent, my comment was about lack of competition for the registry in both .com & perviously .com.au due to the regulator being unable to take action. You've responded to that with something completely unrelated.

    Ausregistry are managing a public resource and charging the Australian public far too much to use a resource the public already owns.

    The party responsible for that is AUDA because they have been unable to go to tender expect under fear of government intervention.

    They've done a terrible job in the last few years.
    • The chairman was sacked by members
    • 92% of staff were sacked by the CEO
    • Most of the directors left either through pressure or choice
    • They voted in .au which works against Australian businesses
    • They funnelled money into a dubious charity (and still do)
    • They wasted money on lavish overseas trips
    • They wasted money on teams of lawyers instead of fixing problems
    • They did everything they could to avoid a tender
    • They did everything they could to scrap the SGM
    • They allowed the UBU problem to develop
    .........and now the government has launched an inquiry.

    You think they have done a excellent job? Tell the inquiry.
     
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  19. Cheyne

    Cheyne Membership: Community

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    I never said there was an ability to pay per year? I was simply breaking down the costs for comparative purposes. Whether you can buy for 1 year or 2 years is irrelevant since the costs are the same on a per-year basis. Buy a .com for 2 years and .com.au is still 12% cheaper.

    If you have an issue whether or not .au domains should be sold on a yearly basis then that is something for another conversation.

    I am not going on a tangent, I am highlighting the flawed logic of suggesting that the prices are too high due to lack of competition based on absolutely no legitimate argument when you do not own or operate a registry business and therefore have no real sense for the cost of doing so and how much "fat" there is left to chew on.

    Domain names are the front door to businesses around the world and yet you claim that a measly $8 or $10 per year is a prohibitive factor? Let's be real for a second. That's the cost of two cups of coffee, or a large McDonalds meal.

    Meanwhile the cost of doing business is going up. Wages are going up. Super guarantees are going up. Power prices are going up. The cost of hardware is going up.

    But you will be the first to complain when the registry is compromised because companies were competing on price and decided to skimp on firewalls and other protective measures in order to cut costs.

    In your opinion, and the opinion of a very small group of people who stand to lose money because they fear that auDA will introduce premium registrations or question the legitimacy of domainers who sit on domains that they will then be forced to contest ownership if direct registrations are introduced.
     
  20. snoopy

    snoopy Membership: VIP

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    Most new registrants do not buy a .com for 2 years. In many cases the 2nd year will be a waste.

    Let me ask you this, when someone comes to you a signs up for web hosting for 2 years what sort of discount do they get? I bet it is substantial because most people wouldn’t normally stay for 2 years and companies know that.

    Australian are being ripped off with .com.au prices, it is a worse situation even than .com because people are forced to sign up for 2 years at $20-$160.

    As I said though still .com is overcharging because of no competition for the registry. Both these extensions overcharge consumers so when people (like Ausregistry) say .com.au is appropriately priced because of .com it is a nonsense argument. Next Verisign will be saying .com is well priced because of .com.au! Both are overcharging, both have been protected as monopolies.
     
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