The wounds have little chance to heal as I continue to stumble and fall, tripping over at every small obstacle, but I get up again and have a look at those smiley icons next to my writing pad and smile back (not sure why).

I wasn't necessarily trying to figure it out, not wasting time and energy on the exercise when I just happened to stumble upon it just a short while ago. It hit me like a ton of bricks but still brought a smile to my face, because you see I have become somewhat insular to these types of things now - it has taken a while but ....

Mark, David or whomever is NetFleet in here please do not take any offence as none is meant - I am just allowing my emotions and thought processes to exude ... yes, some might even say.... I am coming out of the closet, others who know me better know that it is an incureable trait ..... verbal diorrhea (we need spellcheck in here ..... without downloading another program).

So, if you have nothing better to do with your time then read on, otherwise skip this and go to another thread

A rare occurence today - I had a few minutes to "surf" so I decided to surf the netfleet site, venture into the dark corridors, go where no man has been before. I just picked on a category where I knew I have some names listed for sale - some of the near 600 I have listed on the site. After getting through page 3 and not seeing one of my names (150 listings) someone turned the light on so I went to the last page and worked backwards - BINGO!!!!, instant success. The same applies in most other categories in which my names are listed.

Is it because everyone else listed their names before me? No,no,no... not at all.

It is for 2 reasons, both of which make me smile. It appears the listings start with the highest "quality index" ranked name and work down to the lowest ranked. So how is the ranking worked out - check out the information on the site, it is very informative, doesn't make a lot of sense however it is informative. At this point I will ask the eternal question - what came first, the chicken or the egg? The answer to that can be found in the information about quality index values and how they are assessed. I could tell you the answer however why should I spoil your fun - if you enjoy word puzzles you will love this one.

The other reason, which is integrally tied to the first but is not should also be painfully obvious to the sleuths in you - my signature offers a clue.

I now know why the many, many end user visitors shopping for a domain name for their new website for their business do not find my names (and those of many other members / clients) - I'm not talking about the other domainers that visit the site because there are not very many of them apparently - the majority of visitors to the site are buyers.

So what is one to do? SPEND.com.au seems to be the answer - or it could be BUY.com.au - see if you spend money you can have your site(s) in the spotlight section - or you can buy lots of domains in the snapper auction to earn some points to spend on putting your domains in the spotlight section - confusing .... do you buy or spend?

I figure I will spend so I can get my sites in the spotlight section so other domainers click on them to have a gander that then increases the quality index of my names that then brings them forward possibly into the topp 200 names in a given category that then puts them in the face of the many, many end user shoppers.

One problem with that plan ..... I would have to throw some camoflauge paint over the numeral 3 that I have in most of my names which are 3D related because it appears that numerals have a negative effect on the quality index of a name.

The other issue with such a plan is that I apparently am asking too much for my names ..... or the ratio between the starting price and the target price doesn't fit the mold - so taking $200 as a maximum "suggested" starting price if I list my names much beyond about $400 the pricing ratio gets blown out of the water ...... so if I figure the target price is fairly around $3000 then the name will never have a good quality index based on that particular criteria .... add to that the numeral factor and I would have to hand out telescopes to the potential buyer for a 3D site name. But I really shouldn't feel too bad about the 3D names thing, my other names are keeping them company in the quality index basement.

One day, one day someone will wake up and say .... "hey, this system of rating or valueing domain names really sux ..... searchers typing in threedeetelevision are deserting the google and yahoo search boxes and typing the name directly into the address bar, fooling google and yahoo into thinking that the numeral 3 is not popular as part of a search term" ..... Matt Cutts is the guy who needs to wake up with that thought process

So Mark, David or whomever NetFleet is ...... no offence intended, at least you provide a site for us (or is it for you and we are supporting it?? ).

So, as the topic title says - this country needs not only another couple of domains for sale sites but also some form of marketing that helps drive customers (read real customers, non domainers) to those sites.

It can be done .... it will need someone to co-ordinate it and it will need funding .... I for one would have no problem whatsoever paying a listing fee in the knowledge that it was being used in a marketing effort to attract customers.

Current inventory = 30,000 @ $6 listing fee per name = $180k = a lot of marketing buying power. Try setting up a poll Mr DN and see how many of the members of this forum would participate in such a program - if it is less than 51% then send for the white van for me.

That is ass about I hear you say ..... the norm is that you pay a commission if and when your name sells (not on NetFleet, I know it is free) .... that is the way it is and has always been. So the only ones making any money are the site owners because they do nothing to sell your name(s) other than provide a tiny bit of storage space in their server. If you want better exposure to increase your chances of being seen then you sign up for some form of promotion generally resulting in a higher commission being paid if and when your name sells, or pay a fee upfront. For that extra commission / fee / platinum membership the site owner moves your entry from one storeage spot on the server to another. For BIG BUCKS some sites will offer the services of a REAL PERSON, an expert who has all the global connections needed to get the maximum price for your domain name (yellow pages).

The system does work though, apparently. Some sellers get lucky and then the site owner gets paid which allows him to keep the site open and to buy that new merc. Apparently if you have a couple of million names on your site a satisfactory number actually get sold each month (not sure what that number is however I believe it to be small). The site owner is working hard to sell your names. The odds for winning lotto are nearly as good as selling a site on Sedo for any reasonable return. Numbers are great things to play with, just ask our Treasurer(s), past and present

I have seen all manner of figures bandied around in here (and elsewhere), about this, about that - lots of guessing, supposition etc ..... to be expected in such a forum in such an industry....."industry" , a very loose term I would think ...... to be an industry it would necessitate at least 100 businesses doing $100k plus to make the grade (industry quality index rating) - and that is in the Eastern suburbs, now on the north shore ...... see, more unreliable, pie in the sky figures.

So are there any legitemate figures available about this domaining industry? I would like to be proven wrong however any figures are speculative, just like investing in domain names.

I jumped in the deep end totally ignoring good advice (or any and all for that matter) - so that is bad news for you guys ..... I have to be around until I sell all my names (about 600 .au and more than double that in .com), so based on the best unreliable figures I have seen it will take me 74.6 years (that is allowing 28% of my names to drop) ..... so, sit back and relax ..... I'm gonna be here for a long time. (toilet paper is supplied, in bulk, free of charge at the end of every one of my posts).

So - does anyone have any serious thoughts or ideas on how the marketing of sites such as NetFleet can be done, beyond what is being done, to the benefit of all of us including NetFleet ..... dig deep people and think beyond the hexagon.

cheers,
Mike

p.s. I wasn't finished but had to stop, the tips of my typing fingers are bleeding

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No offense but the fact you're asking $135,000 for 3D3D.com.au tells me the problem doesn't lie in the hands of Netfleet.

Even if there were 50 different domain auction sites, I think you would run into the same issue on each and every one.

You can sort the listings 6 different ways. AFAIK quality isn't solely about the domain name but the quality of the listing as well.

I agree with WorGeneral.

From my previous experiences Netfleet has got it right 80-90% of the time.
Obviously there will always be discrepancies, but majority of the time its a fair assessment.


But even if they did have it wrong.... domains such as this "3dglassesbuyonline.net.au" arent even worth Reg fee.
3dtvchoices.com.au @$18,000 = WTF
3dnet3d.com.au @$22,000 = WTF

I agree with Worgeneral and Smile.

Shags, you need to totally re-evaluate your domain purchasing criteria or you are going to end up wasting a whole lot of money.

Going from no domaining experience whatsoever to purchasing 600 Australian domains and 1200 .com's seems like absolute madness to me.

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I think you fail to understand that most of the leads are coming from the 'name spinner' function.

Also, listing fees would only work on a boutique marketplace where unrealistic prices do not exist IMO.

Perhaps domains with pipedream prices should be purged...

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thanks General,

I didn't know that the target price was meant to be an actually expected asking price. I really should have bearsterns.com.au @ 200k, or payouts @ 100k or myshow @ 500k etc etc ..... are they any more realistic? Was it just the way the ball dropped that you picked on that name of mine or was the selection a designed dig?

You missed the point altogether General, which doesn't surprise me, not you personally but moreso the pervailing attitude amongst most (not all) domainers - everyone seems to know better than the other and newbies are only just tolerated, what would they know?

To make this clear - I am not anti domaining, I am in far too deep to be anti or even negative ..... what I AM is being critical because it seems to me that there is a need for criticism to wake some people up and to bring some life to domaining .... EVERY business venture, industry, art, call it what you like needs the occasional wakeup call to wrest it from the dreaded disease of complacency and /or the "its as good as it can be" cancer that unfortunately prevails in far too many Australian business attitudes by comparison to global benchmarks.

I have no doubt whatsoever that I am (and will continue to be) ruffling some feathers ... making eyebrows raise, sometimes in indignation. That is the aim of the exercise, to create reactions, reactions that then generate actions (reactions without the RE). Change is always difficult and not always possible ..... we are creatures of habit but there is an old saying .... man makes the habits, habits make the man ..... revolutions have invariably been started by few and joined by many.

Do I think I can generate changes in domaining in Australia .... I doubt it but then again who knows. Can a group of people such as those that participate in this forum generate such changes .... undoubtedly. I am just stirring up the pot to get a few others to have a scratch and a sniff, stir, roll over, then maybe another scratch before waking up

Any offence taken by anyone is unintended .... am I a smart ass know it all? .... lol, of course, can't you read ... lol (I have to use lol's ..... running out of smiley icon vouchers).

Aside from the term I referred to in the above post... "industry", the other term often used (or misused) is the "art of domaining" .... is that an oxymoron. I figure there must be a lot of artists on the breadline.

Talking about figures - recent sales via NetFleet, aftermarket ( added mentally and rounded) ..... June 2010, 29 names for a total of $21k, 7 names over $1k, those 7 names totalled $14k, balance of 22 names sold for a total of $7k or an average of $320 each. July 2010, still one business day remaining (2 if we allow for domainers as business customers), 16 names for a total of $40k, one name selling for $22k, 7 names over $1k, average sale value without the $22k sale, just over $1k. I have nothing to substantiate the following other than my failing memory and eyesight however of the 45 names sold over the 2 months ALL bar one were resold from the snapper or drop auctions.

Now I kinda figure that domainers bought the domains at the auctions, not actual end users, and domainers then sold those names ..... so it seems if I am adding things up correctly that the money is not being distributed but moreover it is being recycled.

Even with the large $22k sale the average sale price over the 2 months is less than $1500. Extrapolating those 2 months the annual sales would be about 300 names and about $300k , total. Ok, such an extrapolation is hardly accurate so maybe someone has some actual figures over a longer period? $300K would cover the income (at the national average wage) of about 7 or 8 domainers relying on domaining as their sole or at least major source of income. Hardly what you would call an industry.

OOOPS, I forgot private sales. Does anyone have a handle on what those figures, units and dollars, would be ..... I guess not. So what does a domainer use as a gague for the health or otherwise of the industry ..... or as the figures would tend to show, the "pastime" of domaining.

I really want to make some money from domaining, not just pennies ..... there must be others in here that feel the same way, and no doubt there are others that actually do treat it as a pastime, an interest that can occassionally earn some money. Now that I know there is no pot of gold I figure I can still find some nuggets here and there .... enthusiasm counts for heaps and is often confused with naevity (I just happen to be a naeve enthusiast .. lol).

In any case .... onwards and upwards

cheers, Mike

p.s. if the consensus is that I should cease and desist please let me know and I will re-join the introverts forum I used to belong to ..... still not sure why I didn't fit in there ??

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Firstly, I didn't say NetFleet has got it wrong ..... read again ..... this time try to read it so that you are taking it all in, not just the bits that make the hair on the back of your neck stand up.

Granted some of my names are absolutely useless ..... but having said that I do not need to recoup reg fees for all of my names. Just to cover some of your WTF's.

3DTVChoices.com.au .....I'm glad you picked this one .... its cousin, 3DTelevisionchoices.com is Google PR1 #1 ... 1600 muv's, with a very nice affiliate program currently being negotiated (not an Amazon or the like ..... a medium sized U.S. Consumer Electronics retailer, private selective arrangement .... keep watching that site) ..... so I figure 3DTVChoices.com.au will fetch $18k, maybe not tomorrow but within 12 months certainly ..... but if I only get 5 or 6 for it then no problem. Just to validate what I say check out both sites, the sites are mirror image copies of each other at present, only the header is different and some minor text variations (convenience short term).

Looking at development of some domains ...... see I kinda figured that this might work - what do you think? at less than $10/month I can host 3dglassesbuyonline.net.au along with about a dozen or so others to use them as feeders (with good SEO being a given) to a really slick 3D Glasses name I have .... annual cost of about $2k for an estimated turnover of $250k plus at about 35% G.P. ($250k equates to about 20 pair of high quality shutterglasses per week) those numbers work for me and they will work for others that I would sell such a setup to.

Just to satisfy a point, do a GoogleAU search for 3DGlasses and see what you come up with in the first 3 pages or so ..... a whole bunch of crap article reviews, blogs etc .... and a couple of fair dinkum sites actually selling 3D Glasses. There is a very big oyster out there ...... as I said, one really good search friendly name, some good SEO, some manky sites on pages 4 thru 10 pointing to the slick site ..... that is probably why I have a bunch (about30 or so) of manky 3DGlasses names in .com also, for a reason.

This is what is so interesting about forums like this ..... nearly everyone is a critic and nearly everyone is looking beyond the square but not beyond the hexagon. Making money with domain names is not a lot different to making money in any business ..... it essentially comes down to marketing ..... finding niche markets with minimal competition and a consumable product ..... wonderful recipe.

Domaining is only part of the whole internet marketing sphere ..... some names will be nothing but slaves, cheap slaves - regging is cheaper than buying dropped.

In respect to 3Dnet3D ...... I reckon I'll get about $2 - $3k from an ISP within a few months after Telstra pours in mega bucks with its T-Box campaign.

Here is food for thought ..... if the starting price is $50 why are there no offers for 3DTVChoices.com.au complete with website for say $200, or 300, or 50 ????? or $100 for 3DWebsiteDesigns, or Movies3D ? The names cannot be, and are not THAT TERRIBLE .... so logic would suggest there is another reason or ten

websitedesign had an asking price of 55k .... I rest my case

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I tried to give you a serious response but no more...

Take that as a sign that your strategy is wrong.

Endusers do not "shop" for a domain, they know their preferred domain, they check if it is available, most of the time it probably is, if it isn't they try another, their second choice, that goes on until they get something. Only if they are really keen will they buy a name on the aftermarket, and only because they really want that specific domain. Highlighting your name etc might put it in front of domainers eyes, because they are the people who will buy "whatever" (as long as it is good quality).

Don't waste your money.

You need to be realistic, good quality .com.au typically sell in the hundreds. That is stuff like basins.com.au, pic.com.au, stuff registered years ago. You aren't being realistic with your pricing. For names registered recently most are probably not worth the registration fee. It is needle in a haystack work to find names of value. It is not easy like any business.

You can't market a product businesses don't want or need. The name must be good quality or have a characteristic appealing to a certain business, eg their product or brand name.

Very few people wouldn't pay $6 to list a domain name for sale.

Brokers trying to sell low quality domains isn't a viable business model.

Either they are lucky or they own domains people want. I'd bet on the latter for people getting multiple sales/making a profit from their portfolio.

Again it comes down to quality domains.

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